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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,480 |
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Valued Member
United States
220 Posts |
I am just curious. There is a lot of chat about what is "wrong" with the VAM hobby on this site, as well as others. From what I can tell, there are more Vammers than ever. There are websites like this one that caters to VAM enthusiasts. There are other sites with a lot of info, most of it is correct. There are more VAM discoveries than ever in the last few years. We have had the advent of "All About VAMs" in CoinWorld that estimates say have 20,000 readers per month of that column. We have a TPG that attributes all VAMs, not just the list of the month. More hobbiests than ever exist and are active. The amount of reference material has blossomed in the past few years. There is an organization that promotes VAMs now, unlike in the recent past. Leroy is going strong. VAMs have become much more main-stream in the dealer community than ever. I have personally met more fellow VAM hobbiests in the past few years than I ever knew existed in my local area. I have made great friends in this hobby, even from more distant cities than my own. I have had many folks I have never met send me coins to study and research, with no preconceived ideas that they would get something out of it other than to just purely help someone. So what is so "wrong" with this hobby we call Vamming?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
as I have said in the other threads, I think the VAMming community has moved in leaps and bounds from what it was even 5 years ago. There has been allot of areas that have had allot of attention given to it and others that seem to be skipped over. Those that have been skipped over will hopefully develop to catch up with the parts that have been given the attention they deserve to better the collectors interest and knowledge. So I do not see anything wrong, just something that is still growing, and growing pretty fast. It grows with every topic on forums like this one and every new discovery that is found
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:There is a lot of chat about what is "wrong" with the VAM hobby on this site, as well as others. (Everything that you mentioned in between these two quotes I believe to be factual truth...) Quote: So what is so "wrong" with this hobby we call Vamming? Somehow, the opening statement and closing question don't really mesh too well together.... it would be much easier for you to answer that question yourself by rereading current threads than it would be for each of us to reiterate what we have been talking about for the past week. I think that we all have our own little pet hangups that we feel could and should be improved upon..... the problem is that we are waiting for others to do it for us.... it is far easier to complain together than to act independently.... My main beefs are the Top and Hot lists and the rarity ratings... I think that they are just plain wrong in their origins.... it should not be the determination of one person as to what top 40, 50, or 100 coins should be collected... (Yes, I already know standard excuse for doing it that way...but I don't buy it)...... Is it prudent or wise to bestow a rarity rating on a coin without census data to back it up? To me, this adds nothing but more murk and muck that must be waded through, and eventually fixed. Do you think me wrong for feeling this way?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
There is very little wrong. Very, very little. There are only people who think the past is the model for the future. That don't work. It will survive us, in a thriving form we won't really recognize unless we're already thinking.
The problem is not as bad as we (I) have characterized it to be. Question everything, most importantly your own preconceptions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
WHAT IS THE DEAL HERE? WHAT IS WRONG? there not a darn thing wrong......the coins and there variations are all that there is....That is the heart of vamming......while so many threads are so posed on the negative....this is all there is..the study of what they are...Period....IF you want to make more of it,, then you only stray from the truth of the hobby and what it's about...
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The biggest problem with living in the present is that it makes us think we can dictate the future.
We do not dictate the future. We can suggest, offer opinion; those who follow us will be here when we're gone and at least for me I think I'll have a hard time beating someone with a stick when I'm dead.
All we can do is hypothesize. Our children will make the decision. The best we can do is to offer them the most informed choice. A generational change is coming; the change which brought us in has run its' course and the interim appears to be sparse. Those who will follow won't be doing it the way we do. It's not the same world, and the degree of change dwarfs the huge changes we went through.
We either adapt, or we miss them entirely.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5631 Posts |
I see some think ahead with concerns of where we are, where we are going, this is ALL GOOD, I do agree our future will depend on how much information is absorbed by the people willing to run with the knowledge of their past exoeriences.
Zee, I am not sure I agree with your comment about wanting others to do "it for us". I see many doing, I see many commenting about the what ifs, I also see people acting out on their passions to apparently choose a path, some what explored, and dive in to see where ALL this ALREADY written information will bring them and how it WILL better this hobby, you do NOT have to be a member of the NLG to be ALL that. My point, I am doing some die progression studies on the silver dollar series, I am very consumed and passionate about this area of dark understanding, from what I see. I am not going to change things as we know them, just confirm, for my self, why it is the way it is........I love the world of Numismatic Forensics, I am also sure others are working like busy little bees to advance what they are interested in and ALL this could help others some day, some way, to see things clearer for as stated earlier, the waters are already murky, and could use some clarity. Wrong, I see as a state of awareness, some see nothing wrong, and will use the information of today to take them into tomorrow, I question most everything about the information we have at our use today, I am leary to do things because "it is written"..........Is that wrong?
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote: So who is so "wrong" with this hobby we call Vamming? The definitive answer has suddenly hit me like a bolt of lightning.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
If you approach it like a buffet (pick and choose what you want) you'll be happy. But remember the roast duck is excellent today, but may be dry tomorrow. Learn to be flexible. The grousing seems to stem from the menu changing daily and folks get used to their moist roast duck. 
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: The definitive answer has suddenly hit me like a bolt of lightning.
That's nice to know. You wouldn't mind....sharing it with us, would you? 
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Valued Member
 United States
220 Posts |
I am curious also. But note that the statement in Quotes by zeewool is not actually an exact quote.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Z substituted a "who" for the "what" ... I confess ... it's me! 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Now you did it...you just had to scratch that old wound and knock the scab off. I'm of the opinion that we are all Vammers...to a degree. So gang you might as well come out and shout it in the streets that you always look for something different on the coins you acquire. OK, maybe not at first, but eventually you want higher and higher magnification because there is just something different about that great find you made. You get back in the books and see if someone has defined what you just found. You start asking for help, even in this forum, to see if anyone else has found the same thing. You can't sleep because you know it's the find of the century. Yup...then it happens..."Wham", you're a Vammer.
Whether accidental or casually, we're all Vammers and it make us better collectors. Maybe even better people too. So enjoy and good hunting.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5631 Posts |
carmykle You have just announced my life and the intro to VAMS,My eyes are not the same and I am sure you are speaking about most of us here, if not ALL.........Well said, I like your attitude, post away....While I adjust the stereo microscope!!LOL.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
NOW THAT'S the positive attitude attitude I like to hear here!! Lately the focus is all about the minor negative that we have no control over anyway.....its all hypothetical the chicken little what ifs and the conspiracy's......the fact is our knowledge informs of of what is going on, and that's why we are not sucked into over spending, and cling to the art of vamming for what it is.......
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
What is wrong with the hobby? It is probably better stated with this question. Are there issues with the hobby? The answer to that is yes, there are issues. These issues affect people in different ways depending on the level of involvement within the hobby and if they participate with registry sets. A lot of these issues are not seen as these aspects are not readily transparent. The hobby is dominated by strong dealer interests and to a large degree by involvement with third party grading companies. Third party grading companies play a strong role with their registry sets as it tends to focus the hobby only on those coins that make their list. This is very understandable until one questions which coins make the list, how well known are these lists before the third party grading company accepts them and what role and input does the average collector have in this role of deciding which coins are worthy of a list. This is not to impugn anyone or question the motives of people compiling these lists. These same people tirelessly promote the hobby. But understand, those in the know start buying these coins before they are generally known to the public at large. In my view, this is more than a little self serving and I am one of those types that is picky about transparency or lack of disclosure concerning that transparency. As long as everyone understands they are not playing on a level field and everyone is okay with that, I have no issues. To some extent, this is standard operating procedure (SOP) within the hobby and my questioning this practice is (in some folks view) making much ado about nothing.
I also get concerned when legitimate questions about issues are dismissed as bringing up contentious issues and not worthy of discussion. My first thought, what contentious issues? and why can't these issues be discussed? After All, the purpose of a forum is to discuss issues in the arena of ideas. Being dismissive or condescending to people asking these questions does not foster growth within the hobby. In fact it is a huge turn off and helps explain the lack of growth within the hobby. My world view is to question everything, and when people tell you don't question, merely accept it as the way it is done, I am very skeptical. This isn't a religious issue of faith of whether to accept or not, this is understanding dynamics within the hobby I spend a lot of money on.
Edited by Ozland 12/30/2010 6:10 pm
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,480 |