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 Replies: 27 / Views: 3,021 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Lets talk, Grading....YEA /yea its subjective.....but what is the reason why.....AND why such a difference when we ALL HAVE AN EYE?
And what is the reason, we can't see eye to eye....Why there is such a difference? And WHY...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
When there is opinion involved,there will always be a difference.Heck, we can't even agree on what our Constitution means when it is clearly written.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3076 Posts |
Could the underlying principles of "Loope Holes" have any thing to do with it? If a dollar is worth just a dollar how can one make a buck on it?
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
"If everyone is thinking alike..... then someone isn't thinking."
(Gen. George Patton)
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The scale we use is itself subjective. Each grade is not a "place," it's a "range." The best graders among us are still working in a range. Also, how many people do you know, outside the TPG's, who have genuine, substantial experience with everything from P01 to MS69 in any issue, much less all of them? I've never held an MS66 Morgan, much less a 69. I'm extrapolating from the knowledge I *do* have, and my opinion, like everyone else's, has to be taken with a grain of salt. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Then truly "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and pocket book  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
People grading their own coins tend to over grade. People selling coins tend to over inflate the grade. This practice was so wide spread and pervasive that third party grading companies came in to being to prevent the practice from spirally out of control. Third party grading use their own standards. No two third grading companies use the same standard. This is why you have everything from the conservative and respected third party graders to the disrespected self slabbers with their mysteriously ridiculous high grades on other wise mid range grades.
Even among professional graders, its gets murky on Mint state 67 and mint state 68 grades. Grading is very subjective.
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New Member
United States
31 Posts |
Very good point Ozland, have you ever heard of "SGS"? because for while all coins were slabbed MS-70, even Morgans, and have you ever heard of a MS-70 Morgan? Nope, they don't exist in MS-70 (SGS did it regardless of the actual grade). So, for reasons like this, in my eyes there are only 5 'real' TPG: PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, & PCI. and everyone one else is considered a 'self slabber' and NOT a TPG (in my own opinion). Even tho the top 5 TPG's are pretty good, they don't grade with the same 'standards' (like Ozland said), and for this reason there are huge variations on grade between the companies. An example is: PCGS is far more strict with "rainbow toning" and DMPL/PL and sometimes will not 'cross over' certain coins from the other TPG. After realizing what goes on between the TPG companies, than it is easier to determine the true value of a certain coin, such as, an ICG MS-65 Morgan should be bought at MS-64 price due to the fact that if it was graded by another TPG it will most likey NOT come back as MS-65. The entire reason TPG company were create and still exist is to eliminate the 'difference in opinion' with the grade between buyer & seller. TPG were meant to make it able to buy a coin at a set grade/price with out even seeing the coin; it was meant to be a 'set standard', BUT since there are several TPG's than there are several 'set standards' and that's why it is important to understand each and every TPG's 'standards. Edited by Vam Addict
01/04/2011 4:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
TPG companies came into being to make $$$money$$$ for themselves. Overgrading by coin sellers "spiraling out of control" would have corrected itself. Sellers' grades would have been corrected by collectors not purchasing their coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Quote:
TPG companies came into being to make $$$money$$$ for themselves Agree with that. I think the main problem is that there are too many grades - if they only graded in increments of perhaps 5 there would be less confusion and fewer cases of the same coin getting various grades from different or even the same TPG. Putting a little 'slack' in the system could improve it IMHO. I've been looking for an article (but not found it) where a magazine sent the same coins to all the top graders and they were returned with very different results. I think they even sent them back to some of the TPGs twice or thrice and again got different results! It could get worse - if the number of coins being graded drops would some of the grading companies decide to relax their standards to try and tempt people to re-grade in the hope of getting a better result? It all stems from an obsession to value everything to the smallest degree. I think grades were initially there to help sell coins when pictures were not easily accessible. Thats not the case now so not sure why they are still so important. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:there are 5 main TPG's: PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, & PCI. No such thing as PCI... (there hasn't been for several years now). I kinda think that some folks might be giving less credit than may be due to the graders.... It is not that Joe Blow at ICG can't grade as well as Jane Doe at ANACS, or even that there are differences of opinion between them.... There are company goals that over-ride their knowledge, and even ethics..... Each company has its own focus on the direction it is going.... Some folks will not submit to ANACS because they do not want the word "CLEANED" to show up on their coin.... They will send it to ICG instead.... Some folks won't submit to PCGS because they don't play the registry game, and don't want to pay the ridiculous grading fees that are charged..... It is the companies that set forth the guidelines their graders must follow... and there are reasons for them... these are businesses, and employees either play by the rules laid down by the boss, or they find new jobs. edited for spelling. Edited by zeewool
01/04/2011 6:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Aladin, So as to your basic question...money, money, money! If you're just a guy who collects for beauty, or type sets or whatever, the grade really means nothing except when you buy, because, there's a general price for each grade of a date and type of coin...and, you definately don't have to pay the price the seller wants for the coin, or, you can pay what the seller wants. ...I'm trying to make sense here, but TPG companies are not helping a lot of aspects of this hobby. Just taking your money to do what we should learn to do ourselves. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
1893, you make a very good point, and a lot of sense.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
Actually Zee, you have, as always some very clear logic, I see the TPG's are marching to different drums, but do NOT have to play, or like the rules. I do see the spiraling out of control happening with in the TPG's, I see they have their own policy for standards, each of them, I originally thought the ANA set the standards for ALL to follow for the "buying with out seeing the coin" idea, to keep some consistence in the slabs.........SO much for that idea. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
1893S...those are my thoughts exactly when it comes to slabs..
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New Member
United States
31 Posts |
''No such thing as PCI... (there hasn't been for several years now).'' Yes zeewool, they have not been in business for a while now, but the coins that are in their old holders still have been pretty accurately graded with consistency, and alot of their attributions (at the time) were really accurate and for those reasons I still included them as a main TPG even tho they are no longer in business. and yes, I agree with almost every one of you; it is mostly about making money for the TPG them selves, and when there are in-accuracies in the grading it is usually do to the companies standard, not the "john Doe" grader him self. |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 3,021 |
Posted 01/04/2011 10:23 am
