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Pillar of the Community
United States
5614 Posts |
I find the over all slabbing arena looking very inconsistent, I mean if you place a few coins slabbed together, and compared the slabs I believe the differences would surprise you and lets see where this topic will bring us in the advancement of our learning abilities to grade and see the subjective nature to the slabbing/grading apparent, "roll of the dice"!  Post a slabbed coin in this grade, from either PCGS or NGC PLEASE. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
I will post a few later today....and you are right. But I think that has to do with the scale and how they implement them.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5614 Posts |
Thanks Russ.....I am NOT feeling well, and will TRY and do the same so we can explore the grades and such....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Edited by biokemist6
01/08/2011 2:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
2224 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5614 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5614 Posts |
I would first say, please work with me on the quality of my posted pictures, I am a work in progress.
I thought I would post the obverses first to discuss along with other's.
I would like to begin this topic, after members were kind enough to post with a common ground to grade from, I am suggesting the hair details above the ear, then above the date, the cap, wheat stalks, leaves, Anna's face etc.
I see this is going to be also some FUN.Bob, those are some very sweet photo's, also thank you Fenton. I also would like to thank OZ, for his kind offer to use some or any of his registry photo's, thanks again to all for joining together.
Lets start at the hair above Anna's ear, check out each photo and see for your self the details, or lack of details in this area, In my opinion, there are a LARGE varying degree of wear and clarity, I also would point out the over all grade (should) take everything into account before a grade is issued.
I would ask others to examine this area and see the differences, so we can say that is just one area of determining a grade.
I will leave this at this point for now to see other's opinions and we can go from there to another area, keeping in mind we should expect every area of a coin to differ, to some degree, but not in so much that the over all grade is seen as not consistent.........
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
I don't think anyone can be a successful collector or seller without being able to grade accurately. But the question should be to whose standards? PCGS, NGC, ANACS and IGC are the (at this time) recognized top tier third party grading companies. The grade Mint state 63 is the Sheldon scale. It is a mid range uncirculated coin. In the old days before the Sheldon scale was used to classify uncirculated coins, they were done under this generic listing: Brilliant uncirculated which would be a rough equivalent of MS 60, MS 61 & MS 62.
Choice uncirculated MS 63, near gem MS 64, gem MS 65, MS 66.
I decided that I would learn to grade to the market leader: PCGS. (Professional Coin grading Service). I did this as the market place has already decided this grading company is the market leader and commands the highest prices across all grades.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
With an astute eye, there are differences in grading that PCGS has used. In the early 1980's when PCGS first started, they were very conservative in their grading. The old 'rattler' and old green holders are good examples of very conservative grading. Many of these have been cracked out of their holders and resubmitted for higher grades.
In the last few years, PCGS has tightened their standards on proof-like and deep mirror proof-like coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5614 Posts |
IMO, the 1901 Morgan, has over the ear wear, very much so, even some hair wear over the date, but NOT as much as over the ear, the next coin, the older 1887 has over the ear wear but NOT as much, however under the LIBERTY word the hair is also worn, more so than over the ear and the hair over the date is noticeably worn too, the 1878-CC shows hair wear also over the ear and over the date, but NOT as noticeable,the 2nd 1878-CC shows slight over the ear and over the date wear but also NOT as much, the next 1878-S shows slight over the ear wear but strong details in the rest of the hair on the coin, the next coin the 1886 shows more wear over the ear than the previous coin and slight wear over the date, the 1887 coin shows very much more wear over the ear and also under Liberty and over the date, the 1888 coin shows more obvious wear over the ear and some wear, though slight, in the rest of the hair locations. I have seen many coins grade the 63 level look much better than some of these and I have seen some 63's grade worse than some of these, what does this indicate, well among other things this subjective art of grading is just that an art, and also a very subjective perspective opinion, depending on whom is doing the actual grading. I would like to point out that even though the hair differs, it is just one part of the entire coins profile that makes up the final grade, however we have here coins ALL the same grade, from the same company, and as we see, the differences are obvious, but every part equals the total sum of ALL the parts combined to come to a grade...... I would like to see and hear from other members about the grading opinions given and would like to see others grade or give their opinions on the above coins as far as the strike, face, cap, wheat stalks, and cotton leaves on these coins, lurkers included, Gene, ZEE, any one?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Morgan, with all due respect I believe you are confusing strike weakness with wear. A coin which has seen enough circulation to wear down a sharply struck hairline flat is going to have most of it's luster obliterated and obvious wear all over high points of the reverse. For that 1901, reverse and luster are very strong.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Comparing different years and mints as far as grading can't be done..Too many variables! The 1901 MOrgan is typically very weakly struck....I was at a show today and examined a slabbed 1888P in MS64. A novice might have thought the coin was misgraded and really an EF coin because the strike was so bad.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
ONE THING: is very Obvious....While MOST will take any coin for any year and if there is ear wear, its immeadiatly thought to be AU 58....OR a weak strike...while some of this is true for some years, this is not the general rule....AND this is one of the things that members who give online grading, ALWAYS drop the grade for good pictures, yet poor pictures receive higher grade opinions.........
Many think its a perfect coin that is MS65, but that's not true...
These coins represent a composite of the overall grading experience,,Notice the ear always has wear for MS63...the cotton Bolls have slight rubbing, as does the lower neck or hair above the date..the cap has slight rubbing and the bolls also have slight running but no lost definition... when one looks at the fields there can be some dings but the overall face has minamal abrasions. or nice features with a few so called dings...on the OBV...lets look at the
REV
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Quote:
if there is ear wear, its immediately thought to be AU 58....OR a weak strike... Wear by its definition means the coin in question is circulated. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Replies: 136 / Views: 10,840 |
Posted 01/08/2011 10:56 am
