Article: The Disturbing Rise Of Indian Head Cent / IHC Counterfeits

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Author	Replies: 29 / Views: 2,818	Page: of 2
DVCollector Bedrock of the Community United States 10045 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:17 pm I just finished an article written by Rick Snow titled "Counterfeits that Will Scare You". He introduces the piece with a counterfeit AU58 1876 IHC, apparently good enough to fool PCGS at least once. When Rick Snow resorts to describing minute die details to differentiate between real and fake, you just know that most collectors will be completely fooled, especially if "slabbed" as real. The article continues to detail differences seen on a few semi-key fakes--some glaring, others not. After reading this article, I can only conclude we are at the onset of a big wave in counterfeit trafficking of rare coins, as well as deceptive bullion pieces. With scarcer IHCs, counterfeiting is certainly cost effective, especially where cheaper labor and tooling costs are available. As one example, here are the diagnostics for one counterfeit 1869; would you be able to tell? On this fake, even the Longacre Outlines on ONE CENT are present! You're welcome to read this article yourself. I'd like to mail this journal out to collectors here--with the understanding that you will pass it on to the next collector. Everyone interested in IHCs should read the several articles in this issue. In conclusion, here's what I take from this article. • I'll never be good enough to tell a well-made fake IHC from genuine, and the problem will only get worse. An exception might be die varieties which are near-impossible to fake with today's manufacturing methods. • I will not buy a semi-key or key IHC online unless I'm absolutely certain the source will stand unwavering by their coins. A legitimate looking slab will not cut it, even if the numbers match. • Every raw, high-grade semi/key IHC should first be assumed fake; don't buy unless you have the certainty of an expert who stands behind his appraisal. Only a few dealers are qualified to tell. • As the problem will certainly get worse, collectors need to augment their own expertise as a line of defense against forgeries. Hopefully, the hobby will rise to this challenge and continue. Edited by DVCollector 01/16/2011 4:20 pm Report this Post to the Staff

xshift Pillar of the Community United States 2669 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:30 pm wowzers.. Does he theorize on the method of manufacture? I'd like to read it. Is it a stand-alone or in a magazine..? Report this Post to the Staff
macmercury Pillar of the Community United States 5832 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:35 pm Man if this even get pass by the TPG, how are we going to stand a chance? Is this what CAC is for placing their green bean sticker on the slab? Report this Post to the Staff
KenKat Pillar of the Community United States 4085 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:47 pm Absolutely frightening. Although I am not an IHC collector, what's going on has to apply to all types. I feel a sense of urgency to complete certain sets before the market is flooded with these fakes. It may be too late - I hope I am wrong. What happens when the fakes are so good that you can't tell them from real? Clearly this will reduce prices all around. Existing collectors with real coins will be hurt and new collectors will be faced with not knowing whether their purchase is fake or real. Even a respected dealer, at some point, won't know the original pedigree of a coin without some seriously advanced technology. Sigh. My 7070 US Type Set My 7100 Lincoln Cent Set (now with updates!) Report this Post to the Staff
tepritts Valued Member United States 306 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:58 pm Went to the Hot Springs coin show yesterday and did purchase an IHC 1873 open three. In visiting with dealer, he mentioned he had coin that was determined fake by a TPG. He was at the FUN show last week and showed the coin to Snow. Rick at first thought it was real, but later said it was a counterfeit and the TPG was correct. If Rick Snow can be fooled we're all in trouble. The way he determined that coin was not real was to stand it on it's edge. If an IHC stands on edge, it is either a fake or a proof. All circulating coins will not stand on their edge as they have a slight slant from minting. Never heard this one before. Can anyone else verify this fact? Terrell Report this Post to the Staff
DavidZerbato Pillar of the Community United States 1081 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 4:59 pm I'm working on an IHC set and now am very unsure of how I will complete it knowing all the coins are genuine. I for sure won't be able to tell between a real coin and the good fakes. Report this Post to the Staff
stewart Pillar of the Community United States 1126 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 5:01 pm These counterfeit coins have been getting better and better all of the time. Very scary, especially when they get to the point of being able to get passed the professional graders at grading services. The worst part is that is it is going to become more and more of a problem in our hobby. Until we can get the Secret Service to take the problem of counterfeiting seriously. They do a great job with currently circulating paper money and coinage. But even though they are collectible old issues They are still money and can be spent like money if one chose to and people are counterfeiting them. One idea of dealing with it is that I have thought of is getting enough people to contact there congressman and congress women with evidence of counterfeiting and ask them to persuade the Secret Service to get involved. Evidence is not hard to find ebay is on of the major conduits for counterfeit's on the planet They allow many auctions with coins that are clearly counterfeit after numerous contacts from collectors alerting them to the fact to run there course. And they are just one path for them to come into the country. Report this Post to the Staff
DVCollector Bedrock of the Community United States 10045 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 5:03 pm Quote: If Rick Snow can be fooled we're all in trouble. All circulating coins will not stand on their edge as they have a slight slant from minting. Never heard this one before. Exactly--what hope do I have in spotting a fake? I've heard that from Rick Snow too, but I've never testing that on a coin before. Quote: I'd like to read it. Is it a stand-alone or in a magazine..? Xshift, you have first dibs on it! This whole issue is worth a read. Quote: What happens when the fakes are so good that you can't tell them from real? I suspect collectors will need to specialize and get very good at what they collect. For example, I collect mostly 19th C. die varieties such as overdates, which are harder to fake. I hope to eventually develop a good enough eye to tell the difference. As for people buying buckets of high-end, slabbed coins without any supporting knowledge--watch out! Edited by DVCollector 01/16/2011 5:07 pm Report this Post to the Staff
DavidZerbato Pillar of the Community United States 1081 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 6:14 pm Could I get second dibs on the article? Report this Post to the Staff
DVCollector Bedrock of the Community United States 10045 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 6:18 pm Xshift will send it to you when she's done, right Xshift? Report this Post to the Staff
vermontensium Moderator United States 16679 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 6:41 pm Great info DV. I am currently working on my IHC Dansco as well, upgrading some, acquiring others. One must be absolutely diligent and educate themselves as much as possible to hopefully avoid these counterfeits. Some of these are even fooling the most advanced collectors and dealers. It's such a shame it has come to this, but this is the stark reality. Whatever series you collect, learn as much about diagnostics as possible. I have several books on IHC's and am still continuing to educate myself as much as possible. Unfortunately, this will only get worse before it gets better. swcoin.ecrater.com Report this Post to the Staff
Drsandman2 Pillar of the Community United States 1374 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 6:47 pm I read this post on craig's list about fake coins being passed off here in the Dallas area. The post is very specific and believable... even if not 100% accurate, it does make the point that you need to be careful. Especially on CL!! http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cl...1563216.html Report this Post to the Staff
KenKat Pillar of the Community United States 4085 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 7:11 pm Quote: All circulating coins will not stand on their edge as they have a slight slant from minting. Never heard this one before. I don't think this is true. Nickels stand on their edge very easily and even a Lincoln Cent will stand on it's edge with a little effort. I do think this is true of reeded edge coins since the reeding imparts a little curve to the rim. It may be true of IHC of course. Didn't check that. My 7070 US Type Set My 7100 Lincoln Cent Set (now with updates!) Report this Post to the Staff
coinguybrian Rest in Peace United States 5375 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 7:14 pm In 2070 or possibly much earlier it will be even worse, they will have molecular 3-D printers that could just duplicate any coin from scratch. Edited by coinguybrian 01/16/2011 7:16 pm Report this Post to the Staff
GR58 Bedrock of the Community United States 11951 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 8:15 pm Maybe it is time for the TPG's come up with some sort of tamper proof slab with a micro chip. Sort of a smart slab. I am thinking the TPG's could maintain a database with basic information. It could maybe be done with just the bar code. I am thinking if ownership can be tracked maybe counterfeiters would not want their named traced to fake coins. Of course having a slab that can not be opened with out impacting the chip or bar code would be necessary. I would like be able to access a data base for the higher end coins and see who owned it and maybe some price data. Is this a crazy idea .. ? Report this Post to the Staff
coinguybrian Rest in Peace United States 5375 Posts	Posted 01/16/2011 9:13 pm yeah embedding codes on the edge may have to happen for coins valued above a few hundred dollars... Report this Post to the Staff
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Article: The Disturbing Rise Of IHC Counterfeits