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 Replies: 31 / Views: 4,439 |
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
***Warning---Long Diatribe**** I've been thinking for years it seems like we're do for new series of coinage. Historically,most coinage series have lasted 60ish years at most, but our current modern coinage has gone far past that time frame Look at the age of current coin series Lincoln Cent- 102 Years Jefferson Nickel-73 years(had a major Obverse change after 67 years) Roosevelt Dime-65 years Washington Quarter- 79 Years Kennedy Half-47 years Dollar coin?- various I wonder a lot why these series have lasted so long. Maybe because they are the first series with presidents on them and not Liberty style? The Lincoln Cent is probably the most popular of all American coinage, but with the cost of production, and the reluctance of the public and congress to stop production of the penny, I'm surprised the mint hasn't looked at a cheaper alloy and overhaul to try and make the penny profitable again. The Jefferson nickel is a big loser for the mint in alloy alone. They redesigned the obverse in 2005 to boost over face value sales, along with the few years of reverse specials, but the nickel has never been a big collector coin. Why not look at a new 5 cent piece alloy and redesign to make it profitable again. The Roosevelt dime. I can understand this. It's a money maker as it stands, but still it's an old design(65 years) both Obverse and reverse. The Washington quarter is 79 years old. It's a money maker, and the State Quarter, territories, and now ATB programs just make it a bigger money maker. Still old design. Kennedy Half-- profitable for the mint, not overly old yet, but still nearing 50. 50 cent pieces aren't really used in circulation anymore, but hey if they made them a bit smaller and changed the color, maybe they could make money and be useful. The Dollar coin. The mint/government has tried for years to get these used in circulation. Non of the clad dollar coins. Ike,SBA,SAC, or President coins have been successful in this venture. The current $1 coins are so cheap to produce though that even if they aren't used heavily, they're the best % money maker for the mint along with the half. If they could get the 1 dollar bill out of circulation, $1 coins would be very useful. I actually think they have a useful dollar coin now with the size and color, but hey how bout sticking to one for a while. SAC wasn't even 10 years old and they start doing presidents. (thought there was a 25 year minimum on changing coinage)Guess they get around that by making both series or a special allowance by congress. Heck, why not make a 2 dollar coin, I always thought the bi-metal Toonie of Canada was a neat idea. Get rid of the one dollar bill(costs too much to make/replace) I'm not advocating the discontinuance of any of the denominations, just new series that are more profitable. The mint has found that change is good for the bottom line(see all the recent penny,nickel,quarter series)but I don't see just special program coins sustaining sales, people are already starting to think there's too many. A new coin series would do the same thing, and they could change it again in 25-50 years(the more standard life span of a US coin series. Anyone else ever wonder these same things or wish they'd change the series of the denominations? |
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
The problem is the effigy. Once we started putting real people on coins, attempts to remove them are met with strong resistance.
It is sad to say, but it would take an assassination or other significant death to force a change. Had JFK not been killed, Franklin would still be on the Half Dollar.
I can also say how they managed to get Eisenhower and then Susan B. Anthony replaced, but it is more theory than fact.
One thing I can say for certain is that a dollar coin will never circulate until the paper dollar is discontinued.
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Valued Member
United States
117 Posts |
Standardization, that is the problem. So many things are standardized to the current selection of coins. This is also a huge reason that the "odd" denominations never catch on. Almost every cash drawer has no place for $2 bills, or halves, or dollar coins. Vending machines, grocery store change returns, etc... The same goes for changing the size and shape of the coin. You change the size of the cent or make a 2center and now change sorting machines have to be redesigned.
I don't see any major changes like you suggested anytime soon. I do however see other changes coming. Soon we will have a new metal composition for several coins. With the success of the Quarters, Nickels, and even the Lincoln reverses, I see dimes getting a special back soon.
But lets be honest, most people use debit cards now and paper money is just lighter and easier to deal with.
And if we ditched the dollar bill......think of the dancers at gentlemens clubs....where are they going to put a dollar coin?
Edited by ebm
01/27/2011 5:44 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
310 Posts |
I had a feeling it was effigy. Do you think we'll see more of what they did with the Nickel? The obverse redesign was pretty drastic. I almost call it a new series abet with the same person on it, and they didn't do much with the reverse. I think they'll be forced to address the alloy pricing issues at some point or they'll be forced to discontinue the penny and nickel. I think Ike and SBA were easier to remove as the coins themselves weren't popular at all. Ike was a paperweight and SBA was way to close to the quarter in size/color. |
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Moderator
United States
187446 Posts |
Quote:
But lets be honest, most people use debit cards now... I agree. Quote:
...and paper money is just lighter and easier to deal with. I disagree. A two dollar note would be replaced with the two dollar note (simultaneously introducing a two dollar coin would never work). You should then have, at most, one single dollar coin in change from any given transaction. Quote:
...think of the dancers at gentlemens clubs... Every club in my area gives you two dollar notes in change and break-downs. The employees are instructed to immediately cash in their one dollar notes; the ones coming into the registers are routinely removed during the night. They know what they are doing. |
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
I don't think standardization is as big a problem now as it was in the past. Coin Mech technology has advanced to be adjustable. It can be electro composition, etc. Sure there would be some headaches transitioning, but I don't think it'd be as bad as it would have been in the past. I don't think you need to change the size of the penny, nickel, dime, quarter. You will need to look at the alloy composition soon if not now. The 50 cent piece though is big and heavy. I think making it thinner, and smaller, would make it much more viable. or even something radical like a golden dime or nickel size type thing for a 50 cent piece. Bi-metal? there's lots of options in modern minting to make a viable option. There's a lot more minting options as opposed to the past. I actually like the SAC/Presidential Dollar coins. Size and color are good. They are used in the mass transit system here when you buy tickets. The machines return 1 dollar coins in change. $1 isn't what it used to be, $1 really is for the most part, "pocket change" you're lucky if you can buy a soda in a gas station for $1. I agree that I'd like to keep the $5 bill for a while longer, as folding money is still more convenient for large cash transactions, but let's stop wasting money making $1 bills that last maybe 2 years in circulation and replace it with a coin that will last 30 years, and costs 7 cents to make. The government can make it work, they just have to force it into circulation. As for strippers, we can pelt them with Presidential dollars, or who knows with inflation, may have to make it rain with $5's anyway :) Even if I didn't see radical changes to size and denomination, I'd love to see some new coinage. I think the Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dime, and Washington quarter are especially stale. I do like the 1999-current Washington obverse, just seems better to me, but I wouldn't mind a whole new design. I like the Lincoln Cent, but hey if someone came up with something new and pleasing, I'd be all for the retirement of the Lincoln Cent. I'm also not promoting an overnight change. I think the first order of business would be to force the $1 coin into circulation. Then if not at the same time, I'd be looking for new alloy compositions to make the penny and nickel profitable again. second order of business would be trying to completely overhaul the 50 cent piece and getting it back into circulation. I'd actually NOT like to see a $2 coin, but I could see it being a viable denomination. recap--I'd like to see some new coin series, and I think it's a great time to also revamp a coinage system that hasn't changed in 70 years. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
As to our coinage, it's just a matter of time when it will all be historical. Credit and Debit cards will be the only thing in the near future everywhere. As to why our government continues to make Pennies or Nickels since it is supposed to cost more to make them than they are worth, who cares? Not our government. This is a rather silly conversation piece by so many and they just don't realize why should the government care abour the cost to make a coin? They just use what is called tax money to make them, so who cares if it costs a Dollar to make a Penny? In almost all discussions about the costs of making our money, it is normally missed that that cost does not include the building it is made in, the maintenance of that building, the transportation to move those moneys and many other items. Most just mention the metal costs. As to why our coins and currency is not being considered to be changed. Why bother? It will all soon enough be a thing of the past. And when our government oursources the making of all our moneys to China, it will all be in Chinese so why change it now.  And if you think this is something for tomorrow, just look around at how many people use cash anymore. I wish they would have lines at stores for people with cash. Lately I stand in lines in stores everywhere that are backed up with some lady with a check or credit card that isn't working. My Son hasn't used cash for years now. He carries a little in his car but that hasn't been touched in years. All now with plastic. And here is one more thing to think about. With changing our coins, just who would you put on the coins? We've used up all the Presidents on the Dollar coins. |
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
That's dark view on things Carl. I don't think we'd ever outsource of currency production to anyone. They'd lose the control to print it, mint it as they like then. You think us printing money money hurts the dollar value now, I could only imagine what the value of a dollar would go to if we put it's manufacture into the hands of a shady country like China lol. I agree that plastic is taking a bigger chuck of transactions today, but I'd say a lot of people still use paper or coin too. Also, not everyone can hold a bank account thus have a debit card. Drug dealers deal in folding money :) I do include the cost of production into the cost of a coin(although I didn't in my previous discussions). The alloy price of a $1 coin is a little of 7 cents. even after adding in production and operations cost, the coin is still profitable to make(costs around 30 cents). The mint is a for profit business, they not only make money, but the MAKE MONEY. Many other countries like England actually make more money by minting coinage for other countries on contract. The US used to do this too, though I'm not sure if they do anymore. I think we're quite a ways off before barter/transactions are completely solely electronically. In the mean time, I think it would be prudent to make sure that our mint maximize it's profit in providing such currency. The design changes, I admit are solely for personal satisfaction and numismatic reasons, but alloy changes and denomination changes are profit ideas. I don't hold a huge amount of hope that our government would actually do something that make financial sense, but heck I can dream, and sometimes a blind pig finds an acorn. As to who would we put on a new coin? who says it has to be a who? why not the US symbolic Eagle, or bring back Liberty, or something new. We put SBA on a coin, we put an Indian. There's all kinds of things you could put on a coin. I see enough dead presidents on my folding money, I wouldn't mind seeing some art return to my coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
992 Posts |
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Credit and Debit cards will be the only thing in the near future everywhere. No, they will not  Quote:
Standardization, that is the problem. This is certainly an obstacle, but one that could be overcome. The Brits successfully introduced the One Pound coin in 1983 by abolishing the one pound note. Canada did the same in 1987. Canada introduced the 2 Dollar coin in 1996, Britain the 2 Pound coin in 1998. In the 1990s, the British Royal Mint reduced the sizes of the 5p, 10p and 50p coins. In 2002, 12 European countries brought the Euro coins (and bills) into circulation which was a major, big and huge effort -- and happpend with no problems to speak of. And, yes, even small businesses could effort it, which would certainly be one of the biggest outcries in the USA if the 1 Dollar Note would be abolished. So, introducing the 1 Dollar coin into mass circulation could be done -- if there were a (political) will. Despite the US Mints efforts I currently do not see such a will. That saddens me. |
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Valued Member
United States
171 Posts |
THIS thread has been very enkoyable to read........thanks for getting it started GRR. I agree that the only way a $1 coin will make it is to discontinue the $1 bill. That would make to much sense for a govt. agency to do, though.
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Valued Member
United States
132 Posts |
I would like to see all denominations of our current paper bills change to coin.
So would everyone else who uses a metal detector!
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Valued Member
United States
310 Posts |
well discussing all this I went and saw the 2010 mint annual report was available online, some interesting things in there including overall cost of coins. There was mention that they are in talks with congress discussing alloy changes. Some other interesting reading points in there. They actually have the last 10 years available http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_min...nnual_reportUNIT COST OF PRODUCING AND DISTRIBUTING COINS BY DENOMINATION 2010 One-Cent Five-Cent Dime Quarter Half Dollar
Cost of Goods Sold $ 0.0176 $ 0.0916 $ 0.0454 $ 0.0956 $ $ 0.1659
Sales, General & Administrative $ $ $ 0.0110 $ 0.0302 $ $ 0.1469
Distribution to FRB $ 0.0003 $ 0.0006 $ 0.0005 $ 0.0020 $ $ 0.0029
Total Unit Cost $ 0.0179 $ 0.0922 $ 0.0569 $ 0.1278 $ $ 0.3157 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
And if we ditched the dollar bill......think of the dancers at gentlemens clubs....where are they going to put a dollar coin? If the dollar note is discontinued the production and use of the two dollar note will increase greatly. So the dancers will start receiving two dollar tips instead on one. After all, after all this time aren't they due a raise? |
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Moderator
United States
187446 Posts |
As I said above, all of the clubs in my area are already using the two dollar note. It is so well known that when you spend them around here, you will get "the look" from the cashier. GRR, I fixed your table.  |
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Valued Member
United States
268 Posts |
I think they mint could supplement the standard circulating coinage with a commerative coin every few years. I dont see why they cant do both coins for one year. It dont have to be every year but every few years they could do a commerative coin of one of the denomanations. I think that would add alot to the different series of coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1007 Posts |
Regular use of a $1 coin won't happen until the $1 banknote is discontinued. People will have to use a $1 coin then, but that would be met with resistance. I don't know why, it would be a smart idea but the USA is too traditional. I've used a debit card on most of my transactions for the past couple years. I don't like all the dead Presidents on coinage. Bring back Native Americans, Miss Liberty, Eagles, even assorted wildlife. I'd like to see a $2 coin minted, however it would be mainly for collectors. There's a $2 coin in Canada & Australia, a 2 Euro coin, 2 Pound coin so why not a $2 American coin? We have too many quarter commemoratives. We just finished with the State and Territory series, now we have another generation of America the Beautiful series. I wish the mint would have minted a "regular" Washington quarter every year along with the America the Beautiful series, then we could have continued collecting quarters without having to get 10 (P & D) commemoratives quarters every year. And I agree..... there's too many coins to get now. Stay with one cent, nickel, dime, quarter, half dollar, dollar and perhaps a two dollar coin, then if the mint wants some fast cash roll out a bunch of commemoratives. But do they really listen to voices like mine? My 2 cents. |
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Replies: 31 / Views: 4,439 |
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Posted 01/27/2011 5:43 pm
