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 Replies: 21 / Views: 1,993 |
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
Edited by stmpcol
09/30/2006 3:37 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
stmpcol, I'm no expert counterfeit detector -swamperbob will probably check into this topic shortly like bees are drawn to nector- but the 1909S VDB looks good to me. I see no signs of tampering with the date. I am unsure of the 1922 No-D, however since the second "2" in 1922 stands out from the first 2 and looks a little crooked to me (or it could be my aging eyes  ). I hope they both work out for you. Fred |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi stmpcol
The 1909-S is a bit small to get a good look at the mint mark and the area surrounding it to form a good opinion,, can we get good hi res pics of the MM . The periods on the VDB look good !!
The 1922 no D looks authentic to me,, one of the designators is the second 2 which Fred pointed out, also Liberty has the correct form.
1922-no D strong reverse Nice coin !!
Rick
Edited by Metalman
09/30/2006 1:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Thanks for the added Pic !!
Take a look at your coin on the obverse between the U and The R of trust next to the rim,, do you see anything there ?
Like a small die gouge ? right next to the inside rim ?
Rick
Edited by Metalman
09/30/2006 4:31 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
223 Posts |
No die gouge Metalman, just a small spot of lighter color. Used 30x loupe and everything looks smooth.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
They look real enough to me I cant see any tampering like those before me have said the 1909 has a clean enough surface but 1922 Which looks real enough, But withis one being so worn and the key is to have the d missing I am more unsure of this one
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Ok thats not a good thing ! along with the area around the mint mark, my suspicion is growing ,, One more marker,, is there a die chip in the upper loop of the B of Liberty ?
If the coin has either of these die markers, authentification becomes easier, the lack of these is not conclusive of the coin being a forgery,, it just really makes it necessary to send the coin off for authentification,, Should it turn out to be authentic, encapsulation should be done anyway.
Rick
Edited by Metalman
09/30/2006 7:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
Authentication? Definitely? As for looking like the real deal in the pics - yes!
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1091 Posts |
stmpcol, what makes you suspicious that these are anything but real?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
From the pic,, the S shows a discoloration around it,, and the discoloration level looks lower than the rest of the field,, this could be a picture anomoly or it could be signs of the mint mark being built up ,, one of the things that make authentification extremely hard and to a degree unreliable,, there at at least 6 obverse dies for this coin, the most obvious have the die markers I asked about.
If it is authentic its a very nice looking coin and would be a super circulated example .
Rick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1203 Posts |
Not sure how to say this, but I hope you know that to identify and authenticate these coins takes more than the pictures you have posted. I know of no service that would say one way or the other without having them both in hand. Authentication is impossible any other way.....IMO!  Edited by OldDan
09/30/2006 9:27 pm
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
Can't tell about a die gouge in upper loop of B. It's either filled with copper or dirt. The MM looks like the top loop is almost filled with copper, the lower loop filled with dirt. Also looks like dirt starting to build all around mint mark. The first 9 is what caught my eye, it looks larger and the tail is more pointed than the second 9.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
I agree with dan that pictures on a forum are not the best method of authentification,, but there are certian characteristics that can be spotted for these coins which are a sure indication of a forgery,, and likewise there are certian characteristics which can be seen that can help Identify authentic pieces. for sure the information that is given here should be check by submission of the coins to a TPG, but why pay for a coin to be deemed counterfeit if its obvious ? Rick Edited by Metalman
09/30/2006 10:45 pm
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
Thanks all, since nobody said they were fake plain & simple I'll send them for a TPG. Will let you know the results. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts |
Hello. This is one thing I have been working on for a while now. I am not an expert, but I am working on it. For the S-VDB, check out my long-time-work-in-progress site: http://www.oicoins.com/index_files/Page813.htmFrom the pictures on the site, notice the bump in the S. The same mint mark was used for all S VDBs, and all will have this bump. This can be hard to see if not under high magnification. Second, notice how the serifs of the S are straight up and down. Most fakes are slanted. Next, the VDB on the back. The middle "bar" of the be should be slanted, not straight across. 1909 P VDB's have this bar straight across. If you have a plain VDB, please compare. The 22 Plain, looks good. The second 2 is strong, but something is fishy about it. TRUST is also strong than IN GOD WE, which is a characteristic of Die #2 (the good one). So I would say this one is good. But the S VDB... I'm not sure. Hopefully that link will be of some help. Metalman: From what I have read, there were only 4 dies used for this coin. Could you please tell me where you got this information from? Maybe I was confused with 4 mint mark locations, but I would have thought that the be 4 dies as well? As for the "die markers" you asked about, "A lack of these diagnostics does not condemn these coins; they occurred to the dies during production and this appear on only some of the coins. They were not necessarily present on the dies from the start -- but when the do appear, they go a long way toward confirming a coin's authenticity" - PCGS Guide to Grading and Counterfeit DetectionI just now noticed the added picture of the S... there does appear to be a little dot in the loop of the S, and the shape of the S matches the S that I have pictures on my site. So I think they both may be good coins. Good luck with your submissions! Jordan |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi JD
The refersence that I used was Breens,, The statement is written at least 6 obverse dies.
Which to my way of thinking at the time of the reference, there were up to 6 obverse dies Identified,including the two noted in PCGS guide to counterfiet detection, with the slight anomolies of the die gouge and chip.
Rick
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Replies: 21 / Views: 1,993 |
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Posted 09/30/2006 1:51 pm
