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Feds Seek $7m In 'Liberty Dollars'

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 Posted 04/04/2011  5:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jewellge to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Federal prosecutors on Monday tried to take a hoard of silver "Liberty Dollars" worth about $7 million that authorities say was invented by an Indiana man to compete with U.S. currency.

Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted last month in federal court in Statesville on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for making and selling the currency, which he promoted as inflation-proof competition for the U.S. dollar.

His Charlotte-based lawyer, Aaron Michel, is appealing that verdict. He wrote in a motion filed Thursday that von NotHaus did nothing wrong because he didn't try to pass the Liberty Dollars off as U.S. dollars.

"The prosecutors successfully painted Mr. von NotHaus in a false light and now the U.S. Attorney responsible for the prosecution is painting the case in a false light, saying that it establishes that private voluntary barter currency is illegal," Michel wrote.

The trial was scheduled to resume Monday in Statesville. The case involves more than five tons of Liberty Dollars and precious metals seized from a warehouse, which the government wants to take by forfeiture, according to federal prosecutors and Michel.

Von NotHaus began issuing Liberty Dollars in 1998, as head of the Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code. In 2007, the group's headquarters were raided along with the Sunshine Mint in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, where the coins were made. The case is being tried in Statesville because one of the organization's top officers is based in Asheville, and because an undercover investigator made contact with the group in North Carolina.

Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins.

"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted.

Von NotHaus has argued it's not illegal to create currency to privately trade goods and services. He also has said his organization took pains to say the Liberty Dollars shouldn't be called "coins" and shouldn't be presented as government-minted cash. Among other benefits, Michel's motion argues, the Liberty Dollars were a means to help keep currency in local communities by creating networks of merchants and consumers who used the money.

Numerous cities and regions around the country have experimented with local currency, but laws restrict them from resembling U.S. bills or from being passed off as money printed by the federal government.

The concerns raised by von NotHaus and his group are finding resonance among some state lawmakers, too. About a dozen states have legislation that would allow them to produce their own currency backed by gold or silver in the event of hyperinflation striking the U.S. dollar. North and South Carolina are among those states.

That's partly why von NotHaus' group has been followed for years by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that tracks political extremism. Long before the government began its investigation into von NotHaus, the group was raising concerns about the popularity of Liberty Dollars among fringe groups on the far right.

"He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply," said Mark Potok, spokesman for the group. "He very much exists in the world of the anti-government patriot movement, whatever he may say. That's who his customers are."

Von NotHaus is currently free on bond. If the conviction against him is upheld, he faces up to 25 years in prison and a fine of $750,000. A sentencing date has not been set yet.
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Newbismatic's Avatar
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 Posted 04/04/2011  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Newbismatic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
interesting read, thanks for sharing... do you have a link to a photo of his not "coins"?
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ancientcoinguy's Avatar
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 Posted 04/04/2011  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ancientcoinguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They secretly are just trying to take all of his silver and this is their only excuse to do so. :)
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187702 Posts
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Wei Fun's Avatar
United States
244 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2011  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wei Fun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never mind the dubious pricing (see the article linked by jbuck), I have to suspect that the motivation for the persecution (I mean, of course, prosecution) was to ensure that commerce is only ever conducted in official currency. Not because there's anything illegal about a barter "currency" per se, but simply because the govt was afraid of the emergence of a private barter currency that might impact their ability to collect taxes on everything a person does.

Other countries have had alternative currencies circulating at the same time as their primary currency, and haven't suffered as a result. Germany has a bunch of them, for instance.
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Darth Anarchus's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2011  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Anarchus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
... comes down to taxes... they take your money, even if it's not even money
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nod2003's Avatar
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3294 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Domestic terrorism? That prosecutor needs to get out his law book/dictionary and start reading because he is coming off as sounding very foolish.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 04/05/2011  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually think if the convicted had been more careful to differentiate his currency from US legal tender he would have been fine. After reviewing the marketing materials and coins myself I honestly believe the intent was simply to get rich off seigniorage and everything was geared to making people believe this was the next big thing in currency. I honestly believe the intent was not innocent at all.

The US prosecutors did the right thing in taking this to court imo. If this had been approached correctly, the whole thing would have been above reproach and nothing would have happened. It's hard to prove intent, but once you establish that pattern of behaviour in a person or corporation nothing seems to tick a judge off more.

Conrad Black comes to mind.
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rjkingston's Avatar
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642 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2011  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rjkingston to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree the 'Domestic Terrorism' claim is ludicrous. The guy seemed like a he was trying to make a quick buck though. And putting dollars on the coins was argued as his attempt to make them 'legal tender'. That being said, using specie, or precious metals as legal tender is a right granted to the states so we don't have to be bound by the corrupt Fed's currency.

Congress has the right to create legal tender....whether they have the right to delegate that to the privately owned and operated Federal Reserve is another story.
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ayejay1974's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2011  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ayejay1974 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So why don't they go after the Federal Reserve and Government for not following our very own Constitution? You know, the part that clearly states that nothing but silver and gold shall be used as Legal Tender. Last time I checked, My coins and paper bills are not backed, nor made with either.
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Japan
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 Posted 04/14/2011  04:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add goodwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i wonder if it would be legally permissible for, for example, Starbucks or any other market entity to sell their goods / services for other than legal tender?, or if 'selling' on such terms would be illegal, engage in business activity only on 'barter' terms, so that any customer would not 'buy' something but 'change' it for a certain amount of... gold for example (e.g. "our company will change this cup of coffee for a 1/1000 oz of gold")...
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ayejay1974's Avatar
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314 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2011  06:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ayejay1974 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They wouldn't allow much barter with large businesses for too long. Anything that could effect the taxation would be stopped rather quickly.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 04/14/2011  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You know, the part that clearly states that nothing but silver and gold shall be used as Legal Tender.

Because it doesn't say that. It says no STATE can make anything but Gold or silver a legal tender. No such restriction is placed on the Federal Government so they are free to make anything they want a legal tender such as an unbacked paper currency. Perfectly legal under the Constitution.
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2011  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted."

Maybe this guy should audit the Fed and the IRS. Terrorism? What a fad. I fear nothing about this man and his trinkets. I'd be more afraid of martial law than a man who is only following his constitution.

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Ed_B's Avatar
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 Posted 04/14/2011  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said in a statement after von NotHaus was convicted.

I've been following this story and waiting for any comment from the Feds about how von Nothaus is cheating people by using something other than silver in his coins, using a lower purity silver than the government to make his coins, or by putting less silver in them than the government does. So far, I have not seen a single comment from them or anyone else that this case constitutes fraud. Seems to me that if anyone wants to make silver coins out of .999 fine silver and put a full amount of that in their coins, what's the problem? Clearly, this is an authority issue and not a fraud issue.

The recent Utah law about allowing people in Utah to use gold and silver coins as legal tender could provide an interesting twist to the von Nothaus escapade. What if states, like Utah and Colorado, were to create state medallions made from 1/10, 1/4, 1/2, and 1 ounce of copper, silver, and gold that had nature scenes from their state and the state seal on them? These would not be called money, would have no denomination on them, would have weight, metal type, and purity on them, and would not contain any words that appear on official US coins. What would there be to stop the citizens of those states from actually using these medallions as money? Nothing that I can see.
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Ed_B's Avatar
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4008 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2011  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So why don't they go after the Federal Reserve and Government for not following our very own Constitution? You know, the part that clearly states that nothing but silver and gold shall be used as Legal Tender. Last time I checked, My coins and paper bills are not backed, nor made with either. - ayejay

Who do you think it was that loosed the dogs on von Nothaus? It is unlikely that they would then turn on their masters. If they did, there would be no "Good doggie" or cookie for them!
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