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 Replies: 17 / Views: 4,732 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
716 Posts |
I am an IHC collector and personally I find the beauty of a properly toned red-brown or brown coin as desirable or more desirable than a full red. That is just my personal opinion and I am sure others may disagree. However, one will pay a stiff premium for a full red over red-brown and brown for a given mint state. My question is that given that most (if not all) TPG will no longer guarantee color, and that under the right environmental conditions even slabbed red coins may tone (even more so for raw coins), is the premium price worth it if there is the chance the coin will lose value over time? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
I'd say the short answer is yes. A red copper (especially IHC) that is not slabbed is most likely dipped or cleaned. No matter what our aesthetic preference is (and I'm with you on a properly toned RB being the more beautiful), there will always be an amazing demand for "pristine" untouched perfect specimens from the top collectors - they always want the best of the best. Well, that's my belief, anyway. =) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1817 Posts |
It's my belief that untoned original 100% red 100+ year old cents are fairly rare. Copper is a metal that reacts quickly to environmental changes, and the storage methods of coins since that time have gone from acidic to archival, so a pristine IHC is a matter of chance. Most of the raw red BU coins have been cleaned or recolored, and show up with some frequency in slabs also. R&B is the category of choice, as it runs the gamut from 95% red to mostly brown. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
with classics I love the chocolate brown Large cents and have never really seen a full red example except for some replica coins but if I were trying to put together a Red set then I would probably hold off for only RED coins and make sure they were stored the best way possible. If they have remained red all those years there has to be a way to store them while they are in your possession that will keep them that way. Is it worth the premium, well that can be a double edge sword because its all according to what you are trying to accomplish with the set you are building I guess. I would not pick one over another in all situations because I have seen some Red coins that are beautiful but have also seen some that I didn't like, and the same with brown copper. I will go for the one with the most eye appeal for my sets but as I said I am not really trying to build any completely RED coins. I did buy a RED 1909 Indian cent from ANACS for my Dansco 7070 album but the only reason I got it was because at the time I was looking to fill that hole it was what was available and had the best eye appeal of the ones I could afford at the time. I cracked it out and inserted it in an album so I am sure it will not stay red but since that had no bearing on my decision it really doesn't matter |
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Moderator
 United States
187582 Posts |
I prefer the chocolate brown.  My Indian Head cent and Lincoln Wheat cent collections are brown. Actually, it took me a long time to find the perfect 1931-S for my collection because most of the ones I had found were red-brown or red AU+ grades. I finally found a nice, solid brown XF-AU to fill the hole. My Lincoln Memorial Cents are mostly red because I pulled them from circulation as soon as I could (starting around 1979). This is not to say that I do not appreciate the look of red copper. I do. Just not in my album.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
I have two early Red coppers (an IHC and a 2-cent, both PCGS RD proofs) and I am concerned they will eventually darken. Neither one is what I would call "bright" red and I suspect if they were cracked out and re-submitted they might well receive RB grades. I see this as an ongoing risk for red copper coins. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I prefer a newesh looking coin compared to a darken one. However, if putting coins in an Album, I feel it really looks horrible to have all the coins of different tones. One bright red and the next one darker and the next one real dark brown. Just looks like a mess instead of a collection for some reason. And since the possibilities of finding all Indian Head cents in a bright reddish color is silly, I too would rather stick to just darkened or brownish looking coins. With Lincoln Cents all Red is a decent possibility but with any old Copper coin, that tends to fade into the not to possible range. I like the uniformity of all one type in an Album. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I prefer a nice brown any day. Red is OK but not my favorite and I wouldn't pay a premium for red (for one thing it probably won't STAY red so why pay extra to lose more money.) I really don't care for red/brown at all.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
I prefer a nice brown any day. Red is OK but not my favorite and I wouldn't pay a premium for red (for one thing it probably won't STAY red so why pay extra to lose more money.) I really don't care for red/brown at all.
And that may well be the most important thing about a Red Copper coin. Just how long will it stay that way? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The premium on RD is as insane as the premium on MS70.
The RD coin has nowhere to go but down, no matter how it's taken care of. There are even holders with bare copper designed to deteriorate as a sacrifice to prevent the coin from changing.
Not recommending this as a good policy, but strictly as an illustration:
Take a common RD coin and hold it between finger and thumb, like we quickly learn is bad practice. Within days, even hours, it will sport an ugly fingerprint.
Do the same thing to a BN XF. Typical result? No change. The toning protects the surface.
Can you complete a RD set where the coins match? I say it's physically impossible. Want a challenge and a beautiful matched set? Look for xf bn.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1204 Posts |
I have couPle ms coins that I dont know how if call it red or blue or yellow or green ...
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
In 40 years of looking at tens of thousands of IHC, I finally found one that almost met my standards for a beautiful red surface, and even it, a proof, had a carbon spot. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
I happened to be looking through some proof cents put in 2x2 before 1980. Some were bright red, others were an intense orange on the entire surface.
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
toned for me or RB. I also like the woodies.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
Truly unfortunate that we chose to collect a COPPER coin. We know they will degrade over time....and not much we can do about it.
The discussion about Red v. red/brown v. brown is actually a great numismatic discussion to have. I actually prefer to collect all three flavors, while trying not to pay a premium for the red flavors.
I dispise any coin with "problems"....finger prints, spots, bag marks, etc.
It is actually VERY hard to collect higher grade Lincoln cents that are truly, problem free. Recently purchased an AU graded 1926 S, that, when in hand, should be an XF at best, due to the less than pleasing eye appeal and the circulation marks on the high points of the obverse. Time will tell.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
716 Posts |
I really don't think that a copper 'degrades' over time. If it properly tones into a RB or BN over time I think it becomes more attractive.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 4,732 |
Posted 05/17/2011 1:49 pm
