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Nickel Of A Different Color

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uncle al's Avatar
Canada
311 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  8:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add uncle al to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was given an old A & W one gallon glass jug about 3/4 full of pennies. My wifes aunt has been putting pennies in it for years. There was the odd nickel and some dimes also. But here is the thing, when I went through the jug, I found this nickel that looks like it was coated with copper. I have had another person look at it and they agreed with me that the coating is not paint or anything other than copper coating. I put another nickel from the same jug beside it to show that there was no leaching from the copper pennies to the nickel. There is still some petina on the copper colored nickel. Any comments would be appreciated. There are some other pennies from the jug that I will post shortly. Quite an array of pennies.

Nickel-Of-A-Different-Color

Nickel-Of-A-Different-Color
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would want error specialists to chime in on this one, but am offering my opinion. In the picture it appears the copper one is a smaller diameter than the normal nickel. This appears to be a nickel struck on a cent planchet. But please, wait for an error specialist to say something. Being a lover of Canadian nickels, I would love to find something like this.
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Earle-that was my first thought too...where's Ugly when you need him? I'm sure the Canada crowd will chime in soon.
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Funny Money's Avatar
United States
424 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Funny Money to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks smaller to me. Weight and diameter may be helpful.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well there's two options, It's a nickel on a copper planchet, either our penny or a foreign planchet or it's a nickel on a nickel planchet that was a subject of an improperly formed alloy (many reasons for this).

If it were a bad alloy it would need to be a pretty brutal case of stratification to be this brown I think. So I'm leaning to a copper planchet at the moment with hesitation because there's a lot of gleam in that photo.

Can we get a weight and diameter as well as large pictures?

Very interesting specimen either way.
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D's Avatar
Canada
899 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The weight alone will tell the tale..

Nickel is 4.54 grams

Penny is 2.5 grams

Could also be struck on a foreign planchet which could also be of a different weight... Nice coin....
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uncle al's Avatar
Canada
311 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uncle al to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The copper colored coin weighs in at 4.65 gms plus or minus .01 of a gram. The 1994 nickel beside it weighs 4.67gms. I can't find my calipers but will try and pick up a set tomorrow. Thanks for the comment so far.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 05/22/2011  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's well within any margin of error for a consumer grade scale. It's probably a bad alloy five cent planchet that wasn't caught in quality control. There are other examples out there.

That gleam that made me hesitate the first time is because it had that look of having nickel in it and it likely does, just not in the percentage it's supposed to.

You can also look through the foreign coins and see if anything comes close, unfortunately it's not sorted by year and nothing that size comes to mind at all.
Site is here;
http://www.coinscan.com/for/foreign.html
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10458 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well there's two options, It's a nickel on a copper planchet, either our penny or a foreign planchet or it's a nickel on a nickel planchet that was a subject of an improperly formed alloy (many reasons for this).


I have zapped quite a few of these 'brown copper-like' nickels under the XRF at work, all dating post-1982. Those nickels were supposed to be 25% Ni and 75% Cu. Anything over 80% Cu will be coppery-coloured, and I have zapped coins in excess of 86% Cu. Given that the planchet size is almost exactly the same, and the weight is really close (off a bit probably due to slight difference due to specific gravity), I suspect it is an alloy problem, probably when the ingot was poured/cooled, probably prior to rolling. The size difference appears minimal, the coin was struck in collar, look at the denticles.

I would love to put your coin under the XRF uncle al... the analysis would tell me in about 30 seconds if it was a improper Cu-Ni planchet or a Cu foreign planchet.
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Edited by SPP-Ottawa
05/23/2011 10:53 pm
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2011  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to know as well, from the shine and weight, I'm betting it's ours.

SPP... what if anything else have you found in these nickels? Not that this particular alloy can't stratify just by improper heating or premature pouring, but it can be helped along by too much iron caused by poor electrical refining (final stage) of the nickel (usually an anode issue). BTW, email replied, may be in your spam folder.
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uncle al's Avatar
Canada
311 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  01:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uncle al to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is the XRF? I have no idea. The book calls for 4.63 gms, and I dug out a similar year nickel and it weighed in at 4.63 gms. Today, the copper nickel weighs in at exactly 4.63 gms. I rechecked the scale with the measuring weight that came with the machine. I would like to send it to you for analysis, but not sure how to do it. Please let me know how best to do this. thanks.
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uncle al's Avatar
Canada
311 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  01:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uncle al to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AS for the rest of the nickels, this was a penny jug with four nickels. The nickel beside the copper one came in the jug. I put the ordinary nickel beside so as to show that the other nickels were fine. One last request, I can't figure out what BTW stands for. thanks
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10458 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  02:16 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basically, in layman's terms, XRF (X-Ray Fluorescence) is a non-destructive X-ray analysis. The x-ray beam penetrates the coin a few microns, which is great for getting past oxidation or lacquer, and gives you a compositional analysis of the coin. I use it at work for all kinds of stuff, and have access to the machine on weekends to zap coins. The model I use is the Innov-X Benchtop x-5000, see: http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/xrf-x...-xrf/x-5000/

The best way to send it would be to email me, and I'll give you my mailing address. Then send the coin registered mail or Xpresspost (tracking, with signature). Your coin is safe in my hands, there are several long term members on this forum that can speak to my credibility. I have done this for more than a few numismatic colleagues. Once the XRF analysis is complete, I would send the coin back to you.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  06:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
uncle al,,,
Quote:
I can't figure out what BTW stands for...



BTW...by the way..
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Zonad's Avatar
Canada
1472 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zonad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure wish I had a XRF, but the next best thing is having an offer from SPP to zap your coin. Don't miss out on that one, he has done some of my steel nickels which we suspected of different plating results. Suspicions were correct and I have a MS coin with no plating to brag about. Raw steel strikes up very shiney, but is very vulnerable to oxidation.
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Lefreak's Avatar
Canada
24 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2011  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lefreak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oxydation...
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