Bad Paypal Experience

This is where weight variance comes into play. This, and the fact that the price should place it as a potential felonious fraud, is why a complaint should be filed with postal inspection regardless of the seller's reaction (exempting the previously alluded "Oh my mistake, I shipped the wrong tubes. your Morgans are on the way" response). I never play around with potential fraud, especially where PayPal is involved.

PayPal is a State regulated financial institute and I fully treat them in the same manner I would any State financial institute. If there is evidence of fraud, I fully expect them to conduct themselves in a proper manner to alleviate the problem at the root.

If the USPS was used as the carrier for the real property, I file a claim with the US Postal Inspectors and forward the claim number to PayPal with disclosure that they are obligated to cooperate with the investigation. I also fully disclose that, dependent on the postal inspector's conclusions, further civil or criminal actions may be taken.

Both PayPal and the seller receive this information. And the case usually resolves itself with lightning speed.

The postal inspectors would be able to obtain information regarding the package (including shipping weights) much faster than our own "snooping" would result in. And the information would be documented in official investigation documents which could later be used in any civil or criminal case that could possibly result.

In a civil case, there is only the need for a preponderance of the evidence. The evidence simply has to weigh more in favor one way or another. Weighing the contents claimed to have been received, and comparing them to the weight of the package as documented with the USPS would give the preponderant evidence.

What if this seller has done this to others? If these other people also filed complaints with the postal inspectors, then the preponderance would continue to weigh in the buyers' favors.

PayPal is never the final authority regardless of what any contract (implied or express) may seemingly state. As consumers, we have a plethora of venues to alleviate problems of this manner and magnitude. Is it a lot of work? Of course it is.

But this is the same advice I give my clients: Doing the hard work now means that you probably won't have to later. Once people know that you are serious now, they'll know you are serious later and will react accordingly if this happens again. And if you can remove the problem now, it gives a message to others that they will not get away with it if they try the same thing.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke

NPcoin - AWESOME post!

w1a9c8k5:

You should take the original package and all contents to the post office and ask the retail worker to weigh it for you. If the weight is printed on the postage, then verify that the weights match. Whether or not the weights match, talk with the post master.

If the weights match, let the post master know that you had purchased Morgan silver dollars from an individual and you were mailed Eisenhower dollars through the USPS. Take a copy of the PayPal page where the seller claims to have sent you Morgan dollars. Take a Red Book (or Krause) with you also to show the post master that forty Morgans would have weighed more than the forty Eisenhowers. Ask the post master to help you file a complaint with the postal inspectors for potential mail and wire fraud.

Now, if the weight on the postage does not match that weighed by the postal retailer, or if there is no weight on the postage label, let the post master know what has happened. Let the post master know your cost for the merchandise (take a PayPal printout to prove what you paid), and let them know that you want help filing a complaint with the postal inspectors to find out whether there was tampering with the package while in the hands of the post office, or if the seller has potentially committed fraud against you.

The post master *should* write any pertinent information down and take scans of any pertinent documents. The post master should then take your address, and possibly a phone number, and send you a letter stating the postal inspection case number.

If the post master is non-responsive, then file your complaint online at the postal inspectors' website. Give them the same information you gave the post master. You will immediately receive a case number, and should be contacted later for an interview or requests for documentation.

When dealing with a post master, remember that they are responsible for the entire operation, so they are usually quite busy. It may be necessary to make an appointment to speak with him/her. If that turns out to be the case, if you cannot meet with the post master by the next day, simply file the complaint online.

These steps are very simple and can/should be done anytime fraud is suspected, not just with regards to eBay/PayPal. In the current economic environment worldwide, fraud is running fairly rampant. Be sure that the banks, credit card companies, transferors of money, a venues will most certainly be looking after their own best interests. We ourselves should be looking after our own interests. Behind all the pomp and flair of "Buyer Protection", I doubt those companies really care to look after it for you.


P.S.
I cannot message you...I'm a "new" member. It's late for me, so I'm off to eat & sleep. I hope all this information helps anyone that may have need of it.


BadThad:

Thanks! It's what I've been trying to get people to understand for years now. Most people would rather stick it to "the Man" than ask him for help. ;) Sometimes he tells me to buzz off, and sometimes he becomes a real help. We will never know unless we try.

Also if I recall mail fraud is a felony with serious prison time and a fines of 10k on up.

Keep us updated.. This post will be invaluable to the next person this happens to. Good luck on the outcome, it sounds like you're on the right track now.

Bryan1315 not sure you are correct here a PayPal e-check is a legitimate form of payment and includes PayPal fees to the sum of $5 its not like the family/peronal payment option where no fees are charged and it specifically states no protection. So in this case as far as PayPal is concerned there was no fee avoidance. ebay is a different matter even though its the Parent company of PayPal I don't think that they would have any involvement in the claim unless brought into the claim by either party.

Just throwing in an update.
I got the letter paypal requested. Faxed it in and waited.
Well here is a little knowledge on paypal. When you fax in a letter from a third party about the item in dispute paypal looks into them. the first thing they do is google the company and address to see what shows up. They didn't even bother calling the number the third party provided. Since the coin shop only opened 2 weeks ago paypal couldn't find anything on them on the Internet so they said my third party couldn't be verified. After calling pay pal and finding out that is how they "Look into it", and they said it was a Laundry mat. I told them it was a new shop and they just move in 2 weeks ago. He then said he would have the claims department call the phone number provided.

This is pretty sad on Paypal's part. They didn't even call before they rejected the letter.

Anyway the case is still Awaiting Paypal's Review.

The reviewed the letter and are now asking for me to go anf file a police report. Is this normal?