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 Replies: 22 / Views: 4,866 |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I have a tale to tell about two proof coins and since it is a thriller I do not want to spoil the fun by giving a peak into the ending nor into the middle of the tale I can only promise it will span photos and scans and grading and pricing and ....... The tale starts with a fellow flemish belgian offering two proof coins for sale with the description they are proofs and in perfect condition First is Carolus 50 ECU 1988 11 000 pieces made   |
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Pillar of the Community
 Belgium
2078 Posts |
The second is Maria Theresia 100 ECU 1989 only 2000 pieces Description proof in perfect condition   |
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
Maria Theresia would feel right at home in Indiana!!! Very nice looking coin!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by crystalk64
Maria Theresia would feel right at home in Indiana!!! Very nice looking coin!
Terry this is a whodunwhat to whom or it But since Carolus is 1/2 ounce and in flemish Mie Trees is a full ounce you went unerringly to the biggest  |
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
The 1988 50 Ecu portrait doesn't look right. Isn't the crown supposed to be taller? Also, there is hazing on the reverse, so I don't think it could be called "perfect". I don't see any problems with the Maria Theresa, but I am very unfamiliar with these coins. I'm very curious to hear the rest of the tale... |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I only got Krause goldcoins of the world and for other information I use the internet The first site says the half oucne is a reproduction of a silver carolus guilder with Charles V looking to the right and the text of the original coin CAROLVS.D.G.ROM.IMP.HISP.REX.DVX.BVRG.C.F+Note that the Belgian proofs have the letters qp under the date and that there were circulation quality , on purpose prooflike quality ( which I understand as a single polish of the dies ) and finally qp the real proof quality with much better polished dies http://users.telenet.be/egmp/belgie...indexfra.htmThe second site shows you a qp if you go to king Boudewijn and then click 50 ecu http://www.muntslag.be/Since the circulation coin was made at 1 500 000 pieces for only 10 million Belgians it is a true bullion coin often sold as rare outside Belgium |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I also should mention that in Belgium moneychangers sell gold at 1.5% over melt and buy gold at 1.5 % below melt and that in this way I had acquired the two coins in uncirculated quality and knew the proofs looked correct in appearance .
However I was bidding on the 100 Ecu Maria Theresia and to my surprise got it for 9.5% over melt
Since my shipping costs were covered by the first coin I put a very low bid on the second coin and got it for 2.1% over melt
I had arrived at the same conclusion as Susanlynn9 that there was nothing wrong with Maria Theresia and that it was in "perfect condition "
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Maria Theresia 100 Ecu only 2000 pieces 1989 qp proof Copy of the Maria Theresia Thalers which were minted untill into the 20 th century MAR TH D.G.R IMP.G.HUN.BOH.RNote that the coin in the online guide has some kind of strange small spots which are not contact marks or bagmarks but look more like liquid dried up At the low mintage it is doubtfull it is die damage but could be It is not the first time I come accross a proof somebody with a cold sneezed on  At 999 gold and not being reddish the spots seem "treatable" to me http://users.telenet.be/egmp/belgie...indexfs-.htm |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Ok let's recapitulate Sofar Susanlynn got part of the story quote:
Also, there is hazing on the reverse, so I don't think it could be called "perfect".
1 ) I bid 25% over melt on a Maria Theresia proof in perfect condition only 2000 pieces every made and got it at 9.5% over melt It was a fellow flemish belgian within 90 minutes cardrive selling on ebay and if I got cheated easy to drive to . After looking at the coin for half an hour in all blow up and contrast and color scales I pronounced it PR69 or PR70 Since this coin was paying for the postage I put in a low bid on the second coin 2) I bid 5 % over melt on the Carolus proof 11 000 pieces and got if for 2.1 % over melt which is virtually the price of an uncirculated non proof coin Of the uncirculated variety there are 1 500 000 coins and they make for bad photos . So I was used seeing a bad photo weekly for three years on the uncirculated variety . I only looked at the obverse proof in detail . The obverse seemed to match the perfect condition description I found on the first coin . Because I was lazy and am photochallenged and only master of the scan I missed the hazing amidst the reflection of the camera on the coin and the fact the coin is throwing a shadow which for photos means bad lighting anyway therefore I judged I was seeing shades of shadows . Also I felt so confident I did not even consult my friend who is 10 times better with photos then I am . So I will post the Maria Theresia scan and see wheather anybody else wants to look at the Carolus |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Maria Theresia one ounce 999 qp proof 2000 pcs  |
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
I must say the M.T. gold is definitely a beautiful designed coin regardless when the original was struck. I have a few Austrian silver M.T. bullion coins but the one I treasure the most is an original 1865 even though it is a low grade coin. Finding one with any date other than 1780 over here is really tough! Thanks for the photos of your gold coins Ageka as it is an opportunity for hundreds of other collectors to see why so many of us have turned to world coins!!!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Thank you Terry These coins are my retirement fund  To continue with the story the Carolus I got was a bitter disappointment and the first thing I did was go back and look at the photos and go back and see why my ususal bluing the coin had not worked So I came to the conclusion that the red background in the picture and the red twist to the photo made going blue not strong enough So on top of going blue I tweaked green all the way and the evil could be seen on the photo then ( At least partially )  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
The reverse looked even worse and that is what Susanlynn spotted  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Ok next installment 1) I bought the coin for 2.1% over melt only 11 000 made I can sell it for 1.5% below melt at any money exchanger and I doubt that many have ever seen a true proof or would know or care it is a trouble coin they turn around and sell it for 1.5% over spot I am not even sure if I took a power drill with a soft copper brush they would recognize the cleaning  2) Now is the time to disagree with people that say only clean a coin to preserve it Because in my mind it is also acceptable to "preserve" a coin to "preserve" the peace of mind of the owner who does not want the coin in the bankvault with an atrocious computer scan to live with On definitions a) To me anything not mechanical is not to be called cleaned b) There is dipping involving acids or caustic producs c) There is solventing Please remember that water is a solvent because it will disolve salt and sugar And to the die hard cases that do not want anything to do with chemicals please be notified that table salt is Sodium chloride  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
So I send the coin to the crime lab ( my scanner and photoprogram) And no fingerprint not even a partial could be detected . Whodunnit ? I am afraid I will never know . What dunnit I have some ideas and welcome your ideas ! On photos versus scans after you have looked at both I rest my case  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
It is clear at this point that I was withholding my ebay feedback on this coin in perfect condition   |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,866 |
Posted 11/21/2006 08:08 am
