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1933 Double Eagle Special

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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 06/19/2012  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Very true but if for some unkown reason you go crazy or gold shoots up to a million dollars an ounce and you decide to melt it, if someone swapped it before melting and gave you an ounce of gold back at the end of the day wouldnt all you care about be that you have as much melted gold as you started with?

hmmm good question. If Gold was a million dollars a ounce and I had melted down what I thought was all the coins I owned years before and then come to find out the police officers found my coin in someone elses possession and they did research and found I was the last recorded owner I think I would fight like heck to get an extra million even if I had already had all the metal I was supposed to have, as they gave up possession to me of their ounce of gold but I never actually knowingly give up possession of mine. I guess I am just greedy like that...lol as we all know the Govt. is as well as long as your not a third world country wanting to borrow money they know you won't be able to pay back, but definitely don't want to turn this into a political discussion so I will end that part of the discussion with that

Quote:
If he could get 25 out so easy why wouldnt he have gotten more, you can fit more than that into a single coat. And I'm sure others thought the same way as well.

I think Switt had a personal relationship with the cashier (not romantic) and the cashier knew all he cared about was making money and not the legality of how he did it as I have heard he had made other not so moral decisions before this. If I were the cashier (which is the only one who supposedly had access to the coins as they were locked in his cabinet) I would not want to do business like this with anyone else I didn't trust 100% so Switt may have been the only one he dealt with especially if he was smart which is seems he was no slouch in the mental department as most would have just taken them out and sold them without replacing with a different date. Most thieves or shady characters usually only worry about how much they can make and an extra 20 bucks is an extra 20 bucks. But Switt may have been the one coaching him on this telling him if he did it this way there would be no way he could get caught


I apologize for commenting so many times in this one thread but it is one topic I have read everything I have found about the subject and as I stated earlier it is a topic I have struggled within myself about between the collector in me and morality of the subject
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 06/19/2012  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
hmmm good question. If Gold was a million dollars a ounce and I had melted down what I thought was all the coins I owned years before and then come to find out the police officers found my coin in someone elses possession and they did research and found I was the last recorded owner I think I would fight like heck to get an extra million even if I had already had all the metal I was supposed to have, as they gave up possession to me of their ounce of gold but I never actually knowingly give up possession of mine. I guess I am just greedy like that...lol as we all know the Govt.



Hmmm you got me there with the change to get more. Lets rework this hypothetical a little a bit. Say after you melted yours and got the million you were wildly successful and gold came back down and the value of it would little be nothing to you and it had no sentimental value.

Its a little hard to do with the its not legal tender hanging overhead, but I feel like if this was a non government issue that the owner would lose the right to the claim of the coin if it was sent to be melted and they got the right amount of the proper metal back in return.


Quote:
But Switt may have been the one coaching him on this telling him if he did it this way there would be no way he could get caught


Say what you want about his character but I agree he seems to have been a pretty smart guy. Getting the coins out is impressive enough but then for it to stay a secret for so long shows he knew what he was doing and had thought everything through. I feel like someone who planned everything out so well definitely kept a secret stash of these somewhere that may or may not be known to anyone.


Quote:

I apologize for commenting so many times in this one thread but it is one topic I have read everything I have found about the subject and as I stated earlier it is a topic I have struggled within myself about between the collector in me and morality of the subject


Dont apologize its a very fascinating subject to and certainly love the input. Have very much enjoyed the discussion so far
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 Posted 06/19/2012  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the main thing that bothers me so much from a collectors point of view is there is other series of coins out there that were never released and they seem to be ignoring them, but yet they are making a point to go after each and every one of these that comes to light. I know there are other circumstances behind how some of the others got out into the public but they were still asked to be returned and weren't. I know everyone of us have put ourselves in the Switt families position and said "what if", or dream of going through that eccentric family members belongings and find a stash of valuable items that no one knew they had. This situation makes you think if that did happen and you found a Picasso in the attic then found out it was taken from a museum 80 years before and a very good forgery put in its place and everyone had been looking for it since it was noticed the one on display was fake. The days,weeks,months,years before you knew this you spent dreaming of how it was going to change your lives of you and your loved ones and just about had every penny you were going to make from the sale accounted for, then find all this out and realize you will still have to go into that crappy job that you hate waking up to go into for the rest of your life. Its a tough situation to be in and to even think about but just as it is with this case of the coins it would have to be returned to the rightful owner with the family not entitled to anything, not even a finders fee. It would be just like buying stolen property of every day items, you may or may not know its stolen and it doesn't matter how much you paid nor how much its worth the police will confiscate it and give it to the rightful owner it was stolen for and the person that was in possession of the items can go to jail for having possession of the stolen property even if they didn't know it was stolen. My ex-Wife's nephew and father and girlfriend is sitting in jail right now for this very thing. They claim they didn't know but they had allot of items in their house that were stolen but I don't know the facts, just what has been told to me. I really think there is more to the story that has been told but I really do not know
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 Posted 06/19/2012  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan thats a great point about other coins that have gotten out. I think thats one of the reasons that I kind of have a problem with how theyve handled all this, aside from my desire to see these coins keep existing. This is the first coin that got out that never should have yet with some of the others they seemed to have just said oh well and either legalized them or for all intensive purposes legalized them by doing nothing. Yet with these they chase them for a century. It just doesn't really make sense. I do feel at the very least they should be consistent about this. Either let them all be or go after them all for all the coins and they had set the precedent in the past for allowing them after a while.

I cant even imagine how much that would suck for the family to have dreams of striking it big to only get nothing and lose the coins, probably not all they had but still lost 10. The lesson from this entire story seems to be if you have one stay quiet and enjoy it or sell it to either a close or needed head of state ally of the US.
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donkrx's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2012  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK so I will take back what I said, I didn't know they were the descendents of the thief. But what I think should happen is the government should seize them and offer them up for auction, allowing them to be legal in the future, and use the auction money for something good that the country needs.

It reminds me of the online poker ban... they want to get rid of it but they're ignoring how much good could come out of regulating it.

What did happen to these 10 coins?


Quote:
Bryan1315: I think the main thing that bothers me so much from a collectors point of view is there is other series of coins out there that were never released and they seem to be ignoring them, but yet they are making a point to go after each and every one of these that comes to light.


That's kind of the point I was trying to make on the first page, I agree. I'm fine with them preventing the thief's family from benefiting because that would be really wrong, but I think there is just no good reason to destroy them.
Edited by donkrx
06/20/2012 12:46 am
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 Posted 06/20/2012  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

That's kind of the point I was trying to make on the first page, I agree. I'm fine with them preventing the thief's family from benefiting because that would be really wrong, but I think there is just no good reason to destroy them.


Im against theft as much as the next guy but I guess I see this different since nobody lost out on anything and they werent one of a kind items.

As I said above if their long standing policy was to go after these coins fair enough, but time and time again in the past weve seen some coins get out and the government basically say oh well thats fine, yet these get chased for a decade. I dont like the inconsistency
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 Posted 06/20/2012  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the reason behind them not going after the others is that they gave them out to certain people and asked them to return them (at least I know that is the case of the Aluminum Cent) or they accidentally got released by mistake. With the 1933 Double Eagles they knew none got out and they had every one of them locked up in a cabinet, so the only way any of those could have gotten out was someone unlocking the cabinet and stealing them. no matter if they replaced them or not with another coin this certain date wasn't supposed to exist after they decided to melt all of the ones in the cabinet down. At least that is how I understand the situation behind it, but they could have very easily done the same thing with the others in my opinion but decided not to.

Quote:
What did happen to these 10 coins?

I don't know where they are at now but I know not long after they were confiscated they displayed them at coin shows to show them to everyone. I was actually at the Charlotte Coin and Money show probably about 8 or so years ago and they had them on display and it was a beautiful sight to see all those coins that wasn't supposed to exist in one place all together
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 Posted 06/20/2012  01:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I feel like we never really get the full story about how these coins got out at least for the older ones anyway. With information back then they could have just said they made a mistake to save face so people didnt think coins could be stolen from the mint.

I cant even begin to describe how jealous I am that you go to see them in person. The security around them had to have been insane.

Regardless of the final out come if one doesn't end up on display in the Smithsonian it will be an absolute shame. I would also like to see one in the library of congress and if the mint has any type of place they display coins one should be there. Heck put on back in the main mint vault just for its value and what it represents.

Or at the very least is any of them do get melted have a special auction with a new gold coin say the buffalo or eagle and market it as made from the gold of the 33 double eagle. I would bet that could bring in some pretty big money
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 Posted 06/20/2012  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
there was 4 guards around them at all time. you can see the display of the coins on this webpage (this was in Denver but it was the same display on Charlotte) http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistor...age1106c.htm if you scroll down to the bottom you can see all 10 out of the case together. The story they are telling is a little out dated as this was done way before the first court case I believe but it is the only pictures I could find online of the display.
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2012  01:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely beautiful. All seem to be very well preserved. Imagine knowing you have that and not being able to brag about it for all those years. I wonder what they would grade lol
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 Posted 06/20/2012  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The link on page 2 of this thread at the top was a good story, I enjoyed reading that. Thanks.

Knowing all the information now, or both sides of the story, I still think the government should work up some kind of a compromise. I'm not saying to give that family a lot but give them something to make this problem go away and allow it to turn into something good for everybody already. That's the part that kills me - they're ignoring the very real benefits of working it out, I mean for christ's sake they're worth 75 million dollars... think of the good $75M could do. At the time they were allegedly stolen they were worth about $3000 combined (in present day dollars)... that's it... all this... for $3000 dollars in gold coins. I just don't get it, man have they really lost sight of what matters. And to top it all off, when it comes to other coins removed from the Mint, they don't care at all?!?

It is beyond asinine if you ask me.
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 Posted 06/20/2012  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think if they were to make these 10 coins legal and sell them for "75 million" the purchaser of the one coin that was told it would be the "only" legal tender 1933 St Gaudens Double Eagle to EVER exist. When these 10 came known he called Stacks and asked if he had to buy them also to be the only one that could legally own a 1933 Double Eagle. I am not sure they made this claim but I am guessing they had to make some type of claim like this and that was the reason it sold for the 7.6 million it sold for. Because I believe everyone that has enough money and is interested in coins has heard the rumors of more being out there and being traded (heck if I have heard them and in no way can afford to purchase one I am sure they have also), but this is the only one that is supposed to be able to trade publicly without worrying about what the Government will do. If 10 goes on market at one time you can bet none of them will ever see the 7.59 million the Farouk coin sold for because if these 10 are out there they are likely more that will be found after these are sold. Pretty soon everyone that can afford one will be able to own one legally and won't even be worth a million dollars if they keep legalizing every coin that becomes known
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2012  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some of it just HAS to be protecting the one that sold for 7.5 million. If 10 more came out it would lose value for sure but all those coins would still be million dollar coins or more imo
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 Posted 06/20/2012  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a good point Bryan I forgot about that part. The Farouk coin does have a lot more allure to it too. But that person who bought it for 7.6 million probably knew just as well that not only do more probably exist, but that they could eventually be monetized too. If I were buying I would factor that into the value.

So with your points I did overestimate their value, but the reason they're doing all this is still not worth it to me (I know you were not debating that part I'm just reiterating). They claim they are acting on principle but if they just opened their minds up a bit they'd probably see that enough good can come out of a compromise that its not worth it to continue spending taxpayer money to pursue something that frankly no one finds worthwhile. I could see if the American people wanted them to do this, but apparently that's not the case.
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donkrx's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2012  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add donkrx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also thanks for all your comments about this Bryan, very informative.
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