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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
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There's no subjectivity in five and six figure PCGS CAC toners vs 3 and 4 figure Morgan's. The Simpson/Sunnywood collection is FAR superior by multiple magnitudes over Battlecreek So price dictates universal eye appeal? In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
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So price dictates universal eye appeal? No. The eye appeal dictated the price. Edited by hadleydog
07/18/2018 02:52 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
@hadleydog I would like to agree with you, but what I was referring to seems to work the other way. Quote:
There's no subjectivity in five and six figure PCGS CAC toners vs 3 and 4 figure Morgan's. Saying "no subjectivity" is a problem. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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.Saying "no subjectivity" is a problem. Are you honestly trying to argue that Battlecreek is even close to Simpson/Sunnywood? Honest question do you just want to to argue with everything I say for the sake of arguing? No matter what I say you always jump in trying to go against it which are the only posts I have seen from you lately. There is no subjectivity in these collections and is just another example of you arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't care that you have a problem with me but it's just comical at this point what you argue with just because I said it. Edited by basebal21
07/18/2018 04:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4692 Posts |
I have a feeling that these are going to end up in the hands of telemarketers who will hype them with ridiculous prices. Then when the suckers buyers realize that what they have is nothing special (and certainly not rare), the secondary market will get flooded and cause prices to nose drive. If I had a high grade Morgan from one of the hoard dates about to come to market, I would dump it as fast as I could. Need I mention the current tactic of one telemarketer who shows prices that are cherry picked from several years ago at market tops (many of which are offer prices rather than sold prices), and tries to justify his over-inflated coin prices.
Edited by jimbucks
07/20/2018 6:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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.Honest question do you just want to to argue with everything I say for the sake of arguing?
No... When You make bold statements such as "there is no subjectivity" you should expect some form of response. Tbh I have only seen pictures from the Simpson collection and have never heard of the battle creek collection, from what I am reading, it would seem that the Simpson collection is a much more popular one, but to say the one can't think the battle creek collection is better is flat out wrong. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
Let's consider the cost of storing all those silver dollars. One of my local banks charges $350 Can per year for their largest safety deposit box. The size of that is about 10"x 10" x 24". Entirely stacked with silver dollars, about 7000 could fit in one box. Assuming 2 boxes were needed for the hoard, at current $ values, that is nearly $40,000 in storage costs over 54 years.
A question: what do you think NGC would charge per coin for their grading?
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Tbh I have only seen pictures from the Simpson collection and have never heard of the battle creek collection, from what I am reading, it would seem that the Simpson collection is a much more popular one, but to say the one can't think the battle creek collection is better is flat out wrong. The Simpson collection was one of if not the finest Morgan collections ever put together. Battle Creek was a hoard of 10 bags that had some very nice coins in it but were overly overwhelmingly run of the mill common Morgans. It's like the sports equivalent of comparing the Red Sox to the Mets. Just because there are a couple nice pieces on the Mets it doesn't mean the Red Sox aren't magnitudes ever. A coin here or there sure, but as a whole they aren't even close to the same level of quality. Quote:
A question: what do you think NGC would charge per coin for their grading? Under $10 a coin. Probably $6-8 a coin |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
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Honest question do you just want to to argue with everything I say for the sake of arguing? The honest answer is: No. I would much rather not. However, @Optimist-numismatist fairly sums it up: Quote:
When You make bold statements such as "there is no subjectivity" you should expect some form of response. Quote:
...to say the one can't think the battle creek collection is better is flat out wrong. I will address your first question: Quote:
Are you honestly trying to argue that Battlecreek is even close to Simpson/Sunnywood? No, I never mentioned thinking one was better than the other, so no argument. The principle idea is this: I don't have to have even seen either Morgan collection to know that subjectivity cannot be legitimately thrown out the window. If you were given your choice of one of any of the Simpson/Sunnywood collection (price not an issue), which one would you pick for your collection? Do you think every other collector would choose the same as you? If not, then that is subjectivity in practice. The concept of eye appeal is inextricably linked with subjectivity. Now, if you gather a group of collectors who have the same idea of the eye appeal of toning, only then does price truly enter the equation as like-minded toned Morgan collectors do battle with bids. There are simply far too many variables to generalize the dollar value of toning among collectors. #RedSoxNation  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
07/21/2018 03:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
As baseball stated, the Battle Creek collection was simply a hoard of 10 bags that contained about 120 special toners. Many were MS-64, with some 65's and a few 66's. Mike DeFalco bought them all, and I was privileged to view them at Long Beach with him when he received them from Superior.
Sunnywood's 1887 came from this hoard.
The Sunnywood-Simpson date set collection was put together over time with an emphasis on both eye appeal and grade. Google the Somewhere Over the Rainbow collection, it was spectacular and probably the finest set of toned Morgans that has ever been assembled.
To compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges.....one a collection, the other a hoard.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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. To compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges.....one a collection, the other a hoard. See now this is an actually pretty fair point, differentiating that one is a hoard and one is a collection at least shows the big difference between the two and offers a valid argument as to why the comparison of the two is, for lack of a better term "a stretch". Cheers  |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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: I don't have to have even seen either Morgan collection to know that subjectivity cannot be legitimately thrown out the window.
Could not disagree more. When someone presents an argument without knowing the relevant facts and details they're just arguing for the sake of arguing with someone. You guys didn't even seem to know that one is just a hoard of Morgan bags while the other is an elite collection put together by Legend and one of the most discerning collectors of all time who has the money to get what he wants. Point being the idea that people don't need to know the relevant facts to make an argument is just absolutely wrong. For instance in this case there are numerous resources about both Simpson Sunnywood and Battle Creek where some research would have clearly identified the differences very quickly Edited by basebal21
07/23/2018 12:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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.the idea that people don't need to know the relevant facts to make an argument is just absolutely wrong. Baseball... That's not what he said, what he said was that he didn't need to see either groups of Morgans to know that that subjectivity can be a factor when giving an opinion on a coin and or coins I find from what I have read from You on this site you seem to see everything coin related as either right or wrong (just from what I've read, not saying factually). I hope you realise that someone's personal opinion on which collection is better, or what two groups of coins can be compared is different than stating a fact. For example, say there was a really nicely rainbow toned coin at auction and it went for 3x book value. If I say that I personally find the coin ugly, it doesn't mean I am right or wrong. Yes the market would probably strongly disagree with me, but even if 99 out of every 100 collectors liked the look of the coin, it doesn't mean those that prefer other examples are wrong. Just because the market liked one group of Morgans better doesn't mean those who preferred the other group are wrong. I'm not trying to belittle you either, I am just giving my view of things. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Baseball... That's not what he said, what he said was that he didn't need to see either groups of Morgans to know that that subjectivity can be a factor when giving an opinion on a coin and or coins That's exactly what he had said. Commenting on anything without seeing or in other words knowing the facts is naive at best. Quote:
I find from what I have read from You on this site you seem to see everything coin related as either right or wrong I really don't, certain things have correct answers like market conditions or Simpson vs a random bank hoard, but I am on of the first people to jump on someone if they're criticizing what someone likes for no reason if I see it. It's just lately a couple of you have wanted to argue with me over constantly like this thread. Quote:
Just because the market liked one group of Morgans better doesn't mean those who preferred the other group are wrong. Simpson vs Battlecreek is not this situation at all. Not even close. Having 8k+ common grade common dates at best to describe a lot of it nicely doesn't compare to top collections. This is like what's better a Pinto or a Lamborghini. You make like a thing or two better on the Pinto but overall there is no comparison. They aren't in the same class at all. There's many articles and resources on both. Not being aware one was a hoard of bags is why I am saying people shouldn't argue without knowing the facts first. I even actually said "A coin here or there sure, but as a whole they aren't even close to the same level of quality." but both of you continued to argue for the sake of arguing But tell me why a hoard of mostly common date common grades should be superior since you are defending the position Edited by basebal21
07/23/2018 01:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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.That's exactly what he had said. Commenting on anything without seeing or in other words knowing the facts is naive at best.
Except he wasn't giving His opinion on either groups, he was just saying that there is subjectivity which is preferred from person to person. Quote:
I even actually said "A coin here or there sure, but as a whole they aren't even close to the same level of quality." but both of you continued to argue for the sake of arguing See, I'm not arguing which one is better, what I am saying is that just because someone prefers the hoard over the collection doesn't make them wrong. Quote:
.But tell me why a hoard of mostly common date common grades should be superior since you are defending the position Now you're putting words in my mouth, please refer to above point. I am not saying the hoard is better (From the research I have done I would say that I prefer the Simpson collection all day every day). But what I am saying is that someone shouldn't be labeled "wrong" because they prefer the hoard over the collection. |
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Posted 07/18/2018 02:51 am
