Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Washington Carver Commemorative

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 2,118Next Topic  
Valued Member
samuel tan's Avatar
United States
322 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2010  8:53 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add samuel tan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just want to learn about Washington Carver Commemorative, not trying to offend anybody in this forum. Sometime ago, I bought one from ebay, it was advertise as UNC. When I receive it, I was unhappy since it is all scratch up. I disputed, and send the coin back. Lately, I saw same coin in slab PCGS MS 64. I wonder why this coin was made like that? I really thought it was circulated coin. Are they all like that?

Moved to US commemoratives - Sap
Moderator
Learn More...
nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15566 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2010  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The history of Classic US Silver Commemorative is a fascinating story of fine coins, great coinage art and political intrigue.

The Washington-Carver Half is alas well known for it's weakness of strike ..... and as a result many (most?) of the Washington-Carver series show original planchet marks on the high points of the design.

The technical reasons for this are well known ..... die spacing adjustments for overweight planchets and the inevitable underweight planchet entering the coinage press.

Your coin is most likely the way they came out of the US Mint from day 1 ..... and not a result of circulation wear .... hence its high technical grade with known defects.

For learning .... I commend to you David Bower book on US Commemorative.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Edited by nickelsearcher
05/18/2010 9:24 pm
Valued Member
samuel tan's Avatar
United States
322 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2010  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samuel tan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I mistakenly posted this topic in World Coins and Commemorative.
Can somebody help me to move it to US Commemorative? That way, I am hoping to get more feed back.
Samuel tan
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16872 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2010  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No worries, samuel. Topic moved.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Valued Member
samuel tan's Avatar
United States
322 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2010  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samuel tan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you nickelsearcher.
Is Booker T. Washington done the same way? It was minted at the same year, or even earlier.
Moderator
Learn More...
nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15566 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2010  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alas yes ..... both the Booker T Washington (BTW) and Washington-Carver (WC) series are noted for their weak strike and resultant planchet marks remaining on the high points of the design of the finished coins.

This is not a result of year of mintage as you suggest ..... the unfortunate fact is that it occurred in all the years these coins were struck ... BTW 1946-1951 and W-C 1951-1954.

There are many details of the coinage process for which I am still learning ...... but ...... in the spirit of sharing what I have learned ...... following is my understanding of what was going on with these two commemorative series at the Mint ....

These coins were struck on a standard US Mint silver planchet comprised of an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper weighing a nominal 12.5 grams. The tolerance on weight was +- 1.5% ...... so an 'overweight' planchet of 12.69 grams was the upper end of 'acceptable' by US Mint standards.

One of the many adjustments available to mint employees who operate the coinage press is the final spacing between the dies when fully extended ...... and it was common knowledge that if the die spacing were set for a 'nominal' 12.5 gram planchet then the occasional 'overweight' planchet causes problems as a result of the excess metal flowing out of the die and causing rapid Die Deterioration leading to breakage ........

Sooooo ... the expedient solution to reduce work replacing/polishing dies was to set the die spacing targeted for the higher end of the allowable planchet weight ....... whereby most of the coins passing through the coinage press did not contain enough metal to fully fill the design at the high points (the deepest recessed areas of the die) ........

Soooo .... today we have a pile of BTW and WC coins that are in general weakly struck with original planchet marks on the high points of the design. Not to mention the general disregard the Mint employees took handling these coins ....... so .... in general most of these left the US Mint on Day 1 of life as poorly struck with bag marks!

All that said ..... this unfortunate situation presents a golden opportunity for the informed collector who has the patience to cherry pick.

Refer to my logic above ...... the die spacing was set to accommodate as fully-struck only the few top-end 'overweight' planchets ..... and there were for sure some of those which passed through the coinage press.

Sooooo .... .... there exist out there fully-struck BTW and W-C coins that are lovely in all respects and well below the radar screen of those who only look at technical grade (MS this-or-that) for their coin purchases.

I am proud that my personal growing collection of Classic US Silver Commemorative contains lovely examples of each of these ..... a fully-struck Blast White MS-66 1950-S BTW and a fully-struck Blast White MS-65 1954 W-C.

You need the discipline (and knowledge) to look for awhile ..... but they are out there for the same price as a weak ugly example.

Geepers ..... long reply to a short question ..... forgive me for that.

David

Edit ..... I humbly admit to still learning ..... will appreciate any expert views on my feeble attempt to describe the over-weight planchet relationship to poorly struck coins.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Edited by nickelsearcher
05/22/2010 11:05 pm
Valued Member
samuel tan's Avatar
United States
322 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2010  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samuel tan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

They both minted in smaller amount.
For learner, you know a lot. Thanks, for the info.
Valued Member
TDColl's Avatar
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2010  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TDColl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting discussion about the overweight planchets and die spacing issues, I wasn't aware of that!
These coins are readily available in higher MS grades, white or toned. I find the design sort of boring, so I like toned examples. ebay photos can hide all sorts of issues, so if buying a higher grade uncirc example I would stick to coins graded by a reliable TPG.

Washington-Carver-Commemorative
Washington-Carver-Commemorative
Moderator
Learn More...
nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15566 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2010  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a toned beauty for sure TDColl .... Great photo!

See all those original planchet marks and scratches on the face of Mr. Carver? That's not wear or bag marks ..... came from the Mint like that.

What did your TPG grade this example?

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Valued Member
TDColl's Avatar
United States
161 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2010  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TDColl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About a month late, but .... it graded MS-65
Pillar of the Community
cownas22's Avatar
United States
1055 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2010  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cownas22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great discussion, really informative. I need to get a commemorative reference book to study up on before I tackle the series.
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 2,118Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.33 seconds to rattle this change. Forums