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Pillar of the Community
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I was at the Nashua (NH) Coin Show this morning, which was quite busy. Lots of trading going on. There were two dealers with world coins. Most of the other dealers had ASE and Morgan dollars for sale (to be expected, I suppose). Unfortunately, the world coins I was looking for were not available, nor the proof silver quarter Mint Sets I needed to complete my National Park Album. I also was on the hunt for a roll of 1964 Kennedy halves for my small stack. However, the only junk silver I noticed were cull Morgan dollars with a face value of 38x. Too steep for me. In the end it was a disappointment. Buying online seems to be the way to go (at least for me). |
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Bedrock of the Community
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25685 Posts |
NumisEd, cull Morgans were $38? Outrageous!
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Edited by HondoB
03/19/2023 10:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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2049 Posts |
[I also was on the hunt for a roll of 1964 Kennedy halves for my small stack. However, the only junk silver I noticed were cull Morgan dollars with a face value of 38x. Too steep for me.] Did you get there right when they opened the doors? At last week's show, there were a handful of people looking for 90%. I overheard one dealer tell a customer that he had bought a bunch but someone that wasn't a dealer bought it all at 8:20am (the show opened at 9am). Since it wasn't a dealer, the only person it could have been was someone who was with the coin club that set up the show. Pretty disappointed that they would do something like this, but at least there was plenty of 90% available. $38 for cull Morgans is ridiculous. I am not a fan of even paying $29-$30 for them as that's the cheapest I am seeing lately. I am no longer a collector and just a stacker, so the per ounce price keeps me away for the most part. I will buy a few each year, but not like I used to. |
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@NumisEd --
To me, cull Morgans should be in the $20 range tops I think. $15 sounds better to me. They're common and have no collector value to justify any premium.
I wouldn't even ask $38 for Silver Eagles and those are so hot right now.
PS: what world coins are you looking for? Have you tried trading at Numista? I've had decent luck there. I do mostly silver but there's a bit of everything there.
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Pillar of the Community
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2256 Posts |
My LCS is currently paying $27 each for cull Morgan/Peace, selling $32 each. Morgan/Peace have a much higher premium than 90% halves, quarters, dimes because they are popular, impressive in hand, have nostalgia I assume. Not the best choice for stacking but I think most want some anyway. Uncirculated, they have .773 troy oz silver, more than .723 oz $1 face halves, quarters, dimes.
This morning NGC silver melt value page showed Morgan/Peace at $17.34 melt. Even considering less silver due to circulation wear, dealers are not going to sell them for $15 - $20 each.
I went to a local coin auction a couple months ago. A collector had over 2,000 circulated Morgan/Peace dollars. In lots of twenty they sold for $540 -$560 a bag, $27 - $28 each. I bought two bags.
Back in 2016 - 2017 I bought about 60 cull Morgan/Peace for $15.50 - $16 each. Now I could sell them for profit but want to keep them.
Edited by livingwater
03/21/2023 10:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
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844 Posts |
Quote:
"Price is what you pay, value is what you get." -- Warren Buffet @Livingwater - Let's not confuse price for value. I said culls should be in the $15 to $20 range range and I stand by that statement. Culls have no collector value. They never have. I've seen them sell by the bucket at melt less 3-5% many times over the years. Their value is about equal to their silver content, which, at current spot, is around $15/16 each. That's their intrinsic value. At a price of $20 each the dealer gets a decent 25 to 33% mark-up. That's fair in small quantities to a novice stacker, but at scale silver usually has a very narrow margin, closer to 3%. That margin has ballooned over the last decade. Tulip hysteria! Price is whatever someone pays. I fully believe that some dealers are asking $32 - $38 as has been been recently reported in this thread, but that's price not value. At $32-38 the mark-up is 100+% which defeats the purpose of stacking even if you're dollar-cost-averaging. For the price these dealers are asking you can buy a roll of Silver Eagles! Which would you rather have? A cull Morgan for $32 or a BU ASE for $31? Don't feed the beast. Don't pay for hysteria. Stop buying at that price and the price will come down closer to value. |
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2256 Posts |
@ jeffbuckes I'm not confused. As I said my LCS is buying them for $27 each. It's not about what I think, what you think prices should be, it's what the current market is. Don't buy them if you think it's hysteria. I don't have to choose between a cull Morgan/Peace or ASE, I have both. I have a collection of Morgan/Peace VAM varieties. When I buy some Morgan/Peace, I like to go through them to see if I can find clashes, double dies, etc. Over half of my stack is generic rounds/bars, lowest premiums. But I believe many stackers do not stack just on low premiums, price/value, many also ENJOY spending some of their money on higher premium stuff like Star Wars, super hero, special issue 1 oz silver rounds, silver figurines, Morgan/Peace, etc. I consider it a blend of pure stacking and collecting. Stacking only the lowest price silver would be very boring to me. To each their own. Edited by livingwater
03/21/2023 2:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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844 Posts |
@livingwater -
I didn't say you were confused; I was defining my argument. You reported the price, I reported the value.
The price is $32 - $38 for a cull dollar, the value is closer to $15 or $16, and the premium between price and value is near 100%.
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Pillar of the Community
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2256 Posts |
@ jeffbuckes, You said "Let's not confuse..." responding to me. Perhaps I should have said in my prior post, I have often looked up the melt value of 90% silver before I buy and calculate the actual silver cost, I get it. At $32 each that's roughly $41 - $42 per ounce silver for a circulated Morgan/Peace depending on wear or as you said about 100% mark up, I knew that, I like having some.
Edited by livingwater
03/21/2023 4:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
844 Posts |
@livingwater -
I'm not here to argue, sorry for any hard feelings or misunderstandings. What I'm saying is...
Over the last many decades, cull silver dollars always traded within a few percentage points under melt.
As you pointed out, melt on an uncirculated dollar would be just over $17 these days, so based on historic pricing, cull dollars should retail for around $16.
Any premium over that on cull dollars surprises me, but to each his own. "The times, they are a'changing." Pay what you will, buy what you like, enjoy your collection.
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Pillar of the Community
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2256 Posts |
No worries, nothing to apologize for, I enjoyed the discussion. I wish we could go back to below spot or near spot for 90% but it's unlikely we'll ever see that again.
Edited by livingwater
03/21/2023 4:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5192 Posts |
Quote:
PS: what world coins are you looking for? Have you tried trading at Numista? I've had decent luck there. I do mostly silver but there's a bit of everything there. I have not tried trading at Numista. In all honesty, I don't have much to trade for. Regarding world coins, I am still looking for the following:
· Austria, 20 Schilling, 1996, Bruckner circulating commemorative.
· Czechoslovakia, 100 Korun, 1978, Julius Fucik commemorative.
· Czechoslovakia, 100 Korun, 1990, Bohuslav Martinu commemorative.
· Italy, 1000 Lire, 1995, Mascagni commemorative.
· Italy, 1000 Lire, 1997, Donizetti commemorative.
· Poland, 100 Zlotych, 1979, Wieniawski commemorative.
Edited by NumisEd
03/21/2023 5:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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844 Posts |
@NumisEd -
I sent you an email about Numista so we don't derail this thread.
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Pillar of the Community
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5192 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
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25685 Posts |
I've been watching many auctions on HiBid and Proxibid for "shotgun" rolls of Morgan/Peace dollars. End price is generally > $600 not including %18 buyers premium. I just don't understand why, as the contents are inevitably generic silver dollars. That works out to $36 each, excluding tax and shipping.
Make it make sense, please.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Posted 03/19/2023 10:31 pm
