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Brown Ike Discoloration

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2014  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list

Quote:
Vaporizing acetone. The firefighter in me swoons. LOL

Very true... the former chemistry teacher in me says that this would be only an outside event anyway


Quote:
Second, at pressures that would be of any use, I would worry that anything hitting the coin would leave noticeable traces.

Experimentation will tell. I think distance wil play a good part in this. I know sometimes I see small bits of stuff lodged in between lettering. I am hoping the air pressure plus constant fresh force of acetone on these type of spots will encourage the gunk to go away.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Edited by Earle42
01/26/2014 11:18 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  05:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list
Try not to think of it as a milky white discoloration, instead see it as an attractive "frosting".
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Well, I am close. I just use two different letters.

Some people like frosting on I-K-E-S

I prefer my icing on C-A-K_E_S.

A perfect mirror surface is what attracts me to proofs. IMO the Eagle & Moon REV with a gorgeous mirrored background is hard to beat.

I don't know - maybe some day I will change my mind. But for now any toning on coins, even the rainbow ones, just do not appeal to me for some reason.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
Valued Member
United States
477 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shootnstarz to your friends list

Quote:
A perfect mirror surface is what attracts me to proofs. IMO the Eagle & Moon REV with a gorgeous mirrored background is hard to beat.


I'm with ya Earle, I want my proof coins to shine like a...............proof coin.

I just received an unboxed 74 brown Ike and I noticed about 50% of the outside is discolored. I stuck a knife in the corner of the holder and it popped right open. Not sealed very well are they?

Man it is tempting to have some dipped in MS, would the coin stay cameo finish for a relatively long time afterward or would it just turn back to milk eventually?

Rick


Bedrock of the Community
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10047 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Honesty time here. I thought I understood this, but maybe I am wrong. I thought the cameo on a proof coin was the frosted appearance of the raised areas. And I thought this also was an actual surface frosting embedded in the surface of the coin?

Io was not really seriously looking at getting any proofs and so did not know the lingo until last year or so. And I really was not concerned with a cameo proof. Bqck when I used to get proof sets - in the 70s and 80s, I had never heard the term. Getting back into the hobby around 3 years ago there has been a LOT to digest as the hobby now/then is as different as night and day.

I know the frosty looks of the halves I did stayed the same - see the link above and look at the before and after pics.

Please let me know if I am wrong on my understanding of all of this.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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189767 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Now to give jbuck absolute convulsions, I have used good old E Z Est on the Brown Ikes with light hazing with good result.
I have actually seen it done, but would not want to do it myself.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2014  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
I've got lots of Ike dollars. Not one has any haze, discoloration, toning, etc. Niether the proofs or uncircs or even the ones from change. I must be doing something wrong. All look like the day I got them.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2014  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
Earle42, your understanding is correct, Cameo refers the contast of the slightly roughed surfaces of the devices comparted to the mirror smooth surfaces of the fields. The term comes for the jewelry field where a cameo was a white engraved bust on stone or shell on a black stone background. In the case of a proof coin the devices have a slightly roughened surface created by the unpolished recesses in the die. When light hits a proof coin at an oblique angle the light that hits the fields is also reflected off at an oblique angle and not into the viewers eyes. this gives the fields a "black" look. But the light hitting the devices is scattered in all directions including into the viewers eyes making the devices much brighter or "white", against the "black" surfaces of the field. The finer and sharper the roughness is on the devices the greater the scattering and the "whiter" the devices, and the greater the cameo contrast.

The milky contamination of the fields of a brown Ike (and it does come from outgassing of the plastic holder) reduces the visible contrast because the film reflect light to the eyes as well.

Why do so many of the brown ikes show this film? I think it is because they are so common that they were hard to sell and back in the 1970's a great many of these coins traveled from show to show to show in the unairconditioned trunks of dealers cars (no minivans back then and most dealers just drove sedans and carried their coins in the trunk.) So those brown Ikes got baked time after time at 140 degree temperatures traveling from show to show. The high heat cause the plastic to break down and outgas with the fumes condensing on the coins.
Valued Member
United States
477 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2014  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shootnstarz to your friends list
I suspected it came from the holder, some have it and some don't. I have one in a PCGS holder graded PR68 that's horrible looking.

Thanks for the education Condor.

Rick
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189767 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2014  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
It explains why all of mine have the problem. They were all cracked from OGP holders in the early nineties.

The ~20 years in those plastic did not do them any favours, but I love them just the way they are.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2014  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list
The ones I have that were in my dads collection show very little hazing. Mostly a halo kind of look. They spent their entire lives climate controlled. The ones I have that are heavily hazed I do not know their history, so may well have been trunk baked. But....

To mess with the theory that the hazing is from the cases. The cases are the exact same thing used for the GSA Morgans. Many of these coins are PL or near PL coins. I have not seen any of these with the haze on them. What say you all?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2014  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
Conder = thanks for the verification. I always thought the word cameo was a jewelry take-off.

Now I know I am going to break my one Brown Ike (still in the case) out.


How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2014  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
To mess with the theory that the hazing is from the cases. The cases are the exact same thing used for the GSA Morgans. Many of these coins are PL or near PL coins. I have not seen any of these with the haze on them. What say you all?
I need to find the reference, but I think the planchet rinse used contributed to the process. Perhaps someone will beat me to it.
Pillar of the Community
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655 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2014  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list
I just cracked open a 1979 Proof set. All the coins are nice and clean except the SBA which has the same haze (frosting, if you will) I've seen on Ikes. Could this be a dollar thing?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2014  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
If the hazing issue is from the plastic interacting with the metal, I have to wonder if the 90% silver composition of the GSA Morgans vs the 40& silver Ikes might have made a difference in how much the aging plastic affected the coins?
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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