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Replies: 49 / Views: 6,918 |
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
Quote: Did the States Quarters series of 1999-2009 have much influence in catching the interest of new collectors? I think that one big difference between the State Quarters program / Presidential dollars / etc. are that they were very easy for people to just "subscribe" and get the coins in the mail and complete a set, and the coins were very affordable. A lot of people I know that did these sets get them through various "mail order" type programs including directly from the mint. Formal "Coin Collecting" requires much more work, knowledge, time, skills, and money.... There was probably a small population of people that became interested and expanded into the hobby, but I would bet a lot just signed-up for the "next series" (America the Beautiful, sacagawea, etc.) or just stopped after they completed the series. Just a guess.. no real hard facts... Michael
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts |
I hate this thread and don't want to address many of its themes. But there are a couple points I feel compelled to respond to;
First, coin collecting is never really going to die. There will be a time in the near future (about 25 years after the last coin is produced) that coin collecting will cease being a mass market and passtime enjoyed by millions and will become a hobby for the very few and primarily done by scientists of various types (and curators). But coin collecting won't die as long as we have billions of little calling cards passing through peoples' lives.
We've treated new collectors pretty badly. When I started in 1957 nobody ever told me the debased and worn out cu/ ni buffaloes I was collecting from circulation were just junk that would never have any value. No one ever said I couldn't be a real coin collector just filling up a coin board and that I'd have to buy expensive coins from dealers. At every step I was encouraged. My friends were sometimes envious of my finds and I of theirs but and none of us were dismissed as mere children.
It's funny how in those days it was very difficult to progress in becoming a seasoned numismatist because there were no resources other than older collectors and they didn't always have the time, patience, or knowledge to help or steer you in the right direction. Even supplies were hard to find and afford.
Ironically, my meager savings would have done better in the bank drawing interest. Don't get me wrong I actually made a profit on my collection when I sold it (unlike any of my friends) but the value of that collection today would be only about five times what I paid for it. I'd have done better in the bank.
Say what you will about what is required to be a "numismatist" but I wager a kid starting out today assembling collections from pocket change would do far better (financially) than any of my generation could even dream. Of course it would help if they could get proper guidance once in a while but most "numismatists" now just want to tell them moderns are junk and will never be collectable.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Quote: I don't think it will die off. I'm only 31 years old and love collecting coins... . Excellent. It is always good to hear this plainly stated! While everyone has their own set of reasons for collecting, there are surely these commonalities: (1) Coins are made from an attractive material with great care (2) They represent our identity and allegiance to a community (both as citizen and collector) (3) They are a reward for concentrated effort (both as currency and collectible) (4) We can be transported back to an earlier day by a quality original example. Not sure but I suspect there may be something metaphysical going on with this. And probably some others that do not immediately spring to mind.
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Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Quote: ...but I do think that coin collecting is done mainly for investment purposes. That is, it's a way to save and also enjoy a fascinating hobby. And, maybe make some money, too. When I resumed collecting a year ago the idea of making wise investments was part of it. But that has been repeatedly been refuted since then. Certainly there are decent buys out there that will be worth more eventually, but across the board with a diverse collection, breaking even is probably a more realistic goal, or possibly even settling for a bit less in return for the years of enjoyment.
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Valued Member
Belgium
186 Posts |
@cladking I agree, collectors shouldn't be judging other collectors based on what are their financial means. Personally I'm not seeing a reason to worry about numismatics dying out. Obviously once cash is dead fewer people will be interested in coin collecting, but there will always be a few dedicated fans of history who will commit to numismatics. Currency is present in everyone's everyday life and so there will always be people who will study economics, and some of them might get interested in the actual physical means of currency used in the past. I don't quite understand the 'we need more collectors' mindset. If someone gets interested then it's important to treat them well, but it's not necessary and not possible to try to get more people interested, as those who don't catch the coin bug by themselves will end up leaving the hobby. I can't see the market going below where it was in the late 19th century - the coins will still be there and with the expansion of electronic shopping their availability in the years to come will be higher than ever. And while someone might no longer be able to find something in their pocket change, they might just as well be browsing ebay for something they want and then see a cool coin for only a dollar - and they might become a dedicated collector. No, the hobby's not going to die, and it's not even going to be seriously hit during our lifetimes - cladking mentioned '25 years after the last coin is produced'. In the USA I believe coins will be made for circulation until the 2040s at least - with the ATB program running through 2032 and more programs which will probably be added along the way, I can't see it happening earlier. For Europe, cash could well be used until the 2070s-2080s - in Belgium people are especially slow to change and a lot of places still don't take card payment. Many people have compared coin collecting to stamp collecting, saying that the first will become as unpopular as the latter did. However, there is one thing we must see - most Post Offices of the world are still making large profits sending parcels - their numbers are steadily increasing with the rise of electronic shopping. And while fewer and fewer people are sending letters, post offices are still profitable and they do not need to sell collectible stamps in order to have profit. We cannot say the same about mints - once cash use is over, mints around the world will heavily advertise their mint set/proof set/NCLT programs to avoid going bankrupt - and this could spark new collectors. Indeed, well-advertised cheap NCLT can work as well luring new people into the hobby as an obsolete design in circulation - as long as it doesn't become excessive (The RCM is a good example of excessive NCLT issuance) - as this could overwhelm collectors and make them leave the hobby. To sum this up, while the coin market of 2100 will certainly not be that of 1960, it will definitely be way larger than that of 1885.
Edited by TheCoinDom 03/18/2018 11:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
818 Posts |
As a young guy who is a coin collector, I can speak for people my age. When I found the Mercury dime back in January, I took a picture of it and sent it to a bunch of other people my age through Snapchat. Only one of the people I sent the picture to knew what it was, everyone else said they had never seen a Mercury dime before. I think it's safe to say that a lot of younger people aren't into coin collecting like other people are. As far as coin shows go, I refuse to attend them because in my experience, it's nothing but older coin collectors selling items at a marked up price. The last coin show I attended, one of the dealers tried to sell me a Buffalo nickel for 5 dollars, and it wasn't even in great shape or a key date! I get more enjoyment out of finding cool stuff from the Coinstar machine or in change than I get out of buying collectible coins for a marked up price.
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Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Quote:Only one of the people I sent the picture to knew what it was, everyone else said they had never seen a Mercury dime before. I think it's safe to say that a lot of younger people aren't into coin collecting like other people are. That is a very cool and significant story, and I'm glad you posted it. Makes me wonder if you would have found a higher percentage who recognized it among those who liked history (which I know is not a popular subject any more)? And just curious - did it happen to come up that if that dime was a '16-D in decent shape it could be flipped on ebay for two or three iPhone7 Pluses? I hope you will continue to share your thoughts on these things. Treasures can be unearthed just by asking good questions...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts |
Quote: I don't quite understand the 'we need more collectors' mindset. If someone gets interested then it's important to treat them well, but it's not necessary and not possible to try to get more people interested, as those who don't catch the coin bug by themselves will end up leaving the hobby. I don't think the hobby must have the maximum possible number of participants but I do believe that it's the greatest hobby in the world and more people can get enjoyment, fulfillment, and knowledge from it. More people mean more resources like magazines and web sites. More people mean prices will drop less in bad times and demographic changes. More people mean more diversity, more discoveries, and a broader base. Of course there are bad things associated with a larger base as well and some individuals will be hurt if the only thing they love to collect soars in price. If the hobby were "hot" like it was in 1963 then "more people" would probably be more negative than positive for existing collectors. But the hobby is still recovering (since '99) from decades of stagnation and we're entering an era where old time collectors will have to sell their collections. In my opinion we need the hobby to grow at this time. We should be encouraging new collectors but we're still doing a poor job of it.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Moderator
 United States
189603 Posts |
Quote: We've treated new collectors pretty badly. When I started in 1957 nobody ever told me the debased and worn out cu/ ni buffaloes I was collecting from circulation were just junk that would never have any value. No one ever said I couldn't be a real coin collector just filling up a coin board and that I'd have to buy expensive coins from dealers. At every step I was encouraged. My friends were sometimes envious of my finds and I of theirs but and none of us were dismissed as mere children...
Say what you will about what is required to be a "numismatist" but I wager a kid starting out today assembling collections from pocket change would do far better (financially) than any of my generation could even dream. Of course it would help if they could get proper guidance once in a while but most "numismatists" now just want to tell them moderns are junk and will never be collectable. Both are excellent points. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Contrary to popular belief, there are true key date modern coins out there, for example in the American Silver Eagles, there is the 1996-W and the 2008 with 2007 Reverse. In modern American small dollars there is the Cheerios dollar (2000 with 1999 reverse) and the 2015 P Reverse Proof Truman dollar. All of these have consistently held values drastically over issue price and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. There are also key date modern coins in various other countries, for instance there are Chinese fen coins issued in the 1980's that go for hundreds of dollars.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Quote: But I think as long as someone thinks they can get rich from looking through their pocket change, coin collecting will always thrive. I must disagree wholeheartedly on this. This "rush to riches" is but a new development in numismatics of the last 30 years. I believe it plays upon the natural human greed in all of us at some level. When I was first introduced as a so-called YN in 1959 by my father, it was intriguing, never was mentioned "profit" and rarely "investment", although at the time silver was being phased out, I knew of its value. As most "YNs" of my generation, life intruded, money was tight( you guys have "disposable" income?  ), and not until later in life did I return to the hobby. This idea of riches has changed numismatics, and not for the better. Just how many have been suckered into collecting through promises that will not be realized by the miriad of books and videos on the subject. Finding disappointment and immense discouragement only guarantees these fledgling collectors will NEVER return to the hobby later in life. Yes, there will always be collectors, but think about it in this manner. With collectors of any item, "the more IS NOT the merrier". That competition forces the market of value in the wrong direction for any intrinsic value/worth. It is better for us to keep our "tribe" stable, but consistently small! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
581 Posts |
It will evolve and expand, like it is doing now. Like it has since its infancy. Trends come and go.
There is no distinct definition for "numismatics". This is not do directly to the interpretation and etymology of the word itself but because the field encompasses such a vast number of subjects. The field will only expand and grow due to its very nature.
Much of numismatics does not involve anything physically tangible for example.
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Back to the original question. My guess is all who are reading this, have never experienced a great depression or have lived or were born in Burundi, Congo or Central African Republic. You don't see many collectors in those places. Only then will collecting die and you'll be selling or melting your collections for food money.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
581 Posts |
USSID18 you made a very valid point.
Well recognized circulated (junk) silver and world gold coins (10 francs, 20 francs & half/full sovs) would be perfect during the scenario you describe. So a person can collect these. Best of all they can do so buying them for about the price of the PM they contain.
No need to melt numismatic "value" away and you can still enjoy just about all the aspects of collecting.
I do slightly disagree in one regard and that is that I don't think collecting numismatic coins will die. It would be a "buyer's market" for numismatic coins. The numismatic coins would be leaving the country probably. History proves this out in most cases.
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Valued Member
United States
139 Posts |
I think as long as cash is still being used, our hobby will continue to be healthy. but as is continues to turn into a cashless one, there will be less and less collectors. More and more people use credit cards, applepay and other methods instead of cash. People just don't carry and use cash like they use to. Thus, no change coming back to the customer to be searched through by them or their kids. That and their being to many other activities these days, its going to get harder to attract new collectors.
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Replies: 49 / Views: 6,918 |
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