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Die Polishing Lines Or Hairlines? Trade Dollar

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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
It's incuse look at the top of the hair.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
I know, but the fact he said the "hairlines" option is for hairlines resulting from a cleaning now makes me think I should have selected the 'neither' option.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list
The only change I made was changing a typo. I changed the word 'What ye things' in the opening to 'What ye thinks'
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list
Definitely not harsh cleaning lines. I think it was probably something to do with the planchet
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list
Don't be so worried about being wrong or thinking you are wrong, Silver Dollar. It's just a poll. Nobody is going to jump your case if you're wrong.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list
Some lines pass over the devices, so not die polishing lines. They look too coarse and parallel for cleaning hairlines. Maybe roller marks?
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
My answer is that I think it has both cleaning and die polishing lines.

Some are hairlines from cleaning, they clearly cross the devices, most especially at the head; die polishing lines are usually on the fields, since the devices (raised) on the coin are incuse on the die and not easy to polish mechanically in situ while preserving uniformity of direction with the field lines at the same time. Luster is greatly disturbed, and the fields show metal movement.

Also note the extreme lack of detail in certain areas: the foot, for instance. This is not due to a weak strike.

However, some of the lines around the waist and behind the grain sheaf do appear to be incuse die polishing lines, and they do not cross the devices.

There is a third possibility, which is that the planchet was mechanically ground/polished pre-strike, but the surfaces are not prooflike as would be expected. My only possible theory for this would be if the planchet was a filed-down/sanded-down blank that had been previously struck or discarded without striking and was, for some reason, struck again after obliterating the original design. The thinner planchet that would result could cause the odd relief / lack of detail seen in places.

A shot of the reverse might provide further diagnostic information.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
Paralyse's post actually sums up what I was thinking excellently...I was also curious if reverse pics could be provided. This is not your textbook case of strictly die polishing or strictly cleaning. The lines cross the devices in some areas and in other locations they don't. Wondering if this could be as a result of a sanded down planchet before the strike as well.
Quote:
Don't be so worried about being wrong or thinking you are wrong, Silver Dollar. It's just a poll. Nobody is going to jump your case if you're wrong.


I know that. I'm just getting input from other members about what I'm seeing. Also...if you do not wish for me to post in this poll any further...I will not.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list

Quote:
Also...if you do not wish for me to post in this poll any further...I will not


Where did you draw that from anything I said? Actually don't answer. Of course your comments are more than welcome on this post.
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 Posted 10/25/2018  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
Okay, thanks...I must have took your earlier post the wrong way.

Out of curiosity, I'd like to see some reverse pics - this coin has me intrigued
Edited by SilverDollar2017
10/25/2018 11:21 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2018  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
Sort of ruins the looks of the coin regardless of reason.
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 Posted 10/26/2018  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list
These look like draw bench marks to me. Got this from the web after seeing it explained in a youtube video a few months ago.:

These were originally thought to be lines resulting from debris "scoring" the metal strips before the blanks were cut. However, new research has pointed to the final step of strip preparation, the draw bench. To reduce the strips to proper thickness, the final step was to pass them through the draw bench.
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 Posted 10/26/2018  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list
Learn something new. Draw bench marks. Unless coining method hasn't change from the time this one got struck, I though it has something to do to the planchet itself.
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 Posted 10/26/2018  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list
Tihe coin has roller marks on the planchet. It may have some die polish lines. The coin may have been cleaned, but the majority of the lines do not appear to be from cleaning because how straight and close the lines are to the details.
Edited by Slider23
10/26/2018 1:30 pm
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 Posted 10/26/2018  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list
Found more Draw Bench Information:

In the United States silver, in the manufacture of silver coin, is alloyed with copper; the proportion in 1,000 being 900 parts silver and 100 parts copper; and in gold coin, 1,000 parts, 900 being pure gold, 100 alloy of silver and copper, of which not more than 50 parts is allowed by law to be of silver. In practice a very small fraction of this alloy is silver. By means of powerful but accurately constructed rollers, driven by steam, the ingots (which are bars sharpened at one end like the blade of a chisel, and about one foot long, three fourths of an inch to two and a half inches broad, and half an inch thick) are rolled into thin strips or ribbons of the proper thickness for the coin to be made, through the rollers exhibited in the drawing (fig. 4) just above the clock dial. This process is required to be gone through ten times for gold and eight times for silver. These strips must occasionally be annealed in furnaces, in order to soften them, before they are drawn, which latter operation is done by means of the drawing bench (fig. 5), in which they are drawn like wire through a steel gauge to make them straight and of uniform thickness.

I believe it is the rollers on the draw bench that made the marks on the coin (second Image)


Die-Polishing-Lines-Or-Hairlines?-Trade-Dollar
Die-Polishing-Lines-Or-Hairlines?-Trade-Dollar
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