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Moderator
 United States
54283 Posts |
Pretty soon there will be a certification that a coin was minted in the left side of the mint -vs- the right side of the mint.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
Quote:
. You don't have to believe they should have a premium or want to collect all of them but bashing the TPGs for being accurate and calling something exactly what it is is just silly. The Mints are the ones making the different versions not the TPGs I'm actually gonna have to agree with basebal21 on this. The TPG only grade within what they can confirm, so if the only difference between say, a 2016 W, and a 2016 S that we can currently pin point is this which box they come in, or whatever it is. I take it that they have to be able to confirm which mint the coin is from in order to slab it, which is why they get submitted in the government issued monster boxes, correct? This sounds more like something that should be questioned of the mint of why they would omit something as miniscule, yet convenient as the mint mark.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote:The TPG only grade within what they can confirm, so if the only difference between say, a 2016 W, and a 2016 S that we can currently pin point is this which box they come in, or whatever it is. You need to use the (W) rather than the "W" otherwise the confusion goes on. You CAN tell the difference between a 2016 W and a 2016 S just by looking at it Quote:
This sounds more like something that should be questioned of the mint of why they would omit something as miniscule, yet convenient as the mint mark The bullion ASE was (is) intended to be a silver bullion product. There was (is) no reason to have a mintmark just because some decided to turn it into a numismatic issue Edited by Foxwoods Man
11/21/2018 07:35 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I take it that they have to be able to confirm which mint the coin is from in order to slab it, which is why they get submitted in the government issued monster boxes, correct? Correct. They need mint sealed monster boxes to get the mint marks added to the label for the bullion ones. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4692 Posts |
Quote:Not worth spending a premium over bullion ASE value for. I tend to agree with this. As I recall, 1965-1967 coins (all without mint marks) were actually minted at all US mints at the time. I would not be surprised if they had minute differences but who really cares? |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I tend to agree with this. As I recall, 1965-1967 coins (all without mint marks) were actually minted at all US mints at the time. I would not be surprised if they had minute differences but who really cares? There's been West Point cents before but it was found out after the fact. TONS of people would care if they were identified and they would have huge premiums |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5629 Posts |
spruett001, Let Me Rephrase My Statement. WE ALL know the New Orleans Mint was An old facility, the FACT the mint was Very close to the Gulf of Mexico allowed excess moisture in and around that facility. It was said, that IF the Working dies were NOT placed into the vault,at the days end away or secured from the moisture in the facility, being left out would oxidize the dies and lead to a lesser quality of a minted coin........ PS, ANY coin minted in the San Fran mint, was remarkably finer quality, on a more consistent basis, at any given time, compared to any from the New O's mint...... I apologize for any misunderstandings, Be Well.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
@morgans dad
Okay, so you meant that rusting dies were the main contributor to inferior coins? I don't know how the coins compare, just curious about the specifics. Considering the proximity or the SF Mint to the ocean, I am wondering why their coins would be markedly superior. Equipment differences? Any clarity you can give would be appreciated.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
The "quality" issue with "O" Mint Morgans has to do entirely with the way the dies were set up effecting a weaker strike than other Morgans minted in different facilities. Morgans were my thing for MANY years...
It had zip to do with being close to water.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5629 Posts |
Fox, I too was Heavy into Morgans, I am Re Reading the VAM Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace dollars, by Leroy C. Van Allen. It states EVERY aspect about the New Orleans Facility, and the worker's lack of pride and consideration for Quality, Poor air quality, moisture problems etc....... READ AWAY.... PS, I almost went blind researching Morgan's for decades, The ' VAM ' site had some of the most brilliant people who had done 100 times the research I was doing, They , basically left there too....... With all due respect, The site has changed,Like most sites, the member's make and or invest their time, efforts and inject their knowledge to build that site. People learn and people move on, leaving the site with all ' the member's ' researched knowledge, there for all to see and learn from. Very Knowledgeable hard working dedicated people, doing what they love, for all to see, long after these people have left these sites. .................. There are Still good people with strong passions there, Just NOT the same.... The times, they are a changin...........:)PS, I believe the researching I did, on that site showed, along with discussions on that site and this one, LONG, LONG ago, that the New Orleans facility was a damp, humid, old work place compared to other Mints and the out going products, showed the same, Problematic conditions which directly impacted the quality of the products being discussed................ Edited by Morgans Dad
11/24/2018 10:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Yup...all of the above and this that directly affected strike quality of the New Orleans Morgan dollar: Quote:
Many, if not most, New Orleans dollars are fairly lightly struck at-the center of the obverse and reverse. This "light striking," so-called, was due to the dies being spaced slightly farther apart than they should have been. This was economical, as coins could be struck with less die breakage. However, this wide spacing did not permit the silver metal to flow into the deepest recesses of the die, with the result that hair strands around Miss Liberty's ear on the obverse and the eagle's breast feathers on the reverse are often flat. The same situation occurs among certain Philadelphia, Carson City, and San Francisco issues, but not nearly to the extent of New Orleans. |
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Valued Member
 United States
56 Posts |
This discussion that I started has proven to be VERY interesting and educational. Thanks guys for all of the info. I bought a book a while back called "American Silver Eagles" by John Mercanti, the guy that designed the ASE, that probably talks about all of this. I read the first couple of chapters, I guess I should dive in and read the rest, huh?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5629 Posts |
I agree to say, there is far more to the resultant factors, that led to the ' product's that came out of the New Orleans Mint. SO, I would agree that what You have said, and are stating, there is more about the moisture, and it's Direct result on the QUALITY that came consistently, from that mint facility, unlike or unmatched , from ANY other mint, of the time......... Again, THIS is just My Opinion.....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
My opinion (which I'm sure is the one that matters to everyone here) is that if the world's most renowned experts can't tell where a coin was minted simply by looking at the coin itself, then it's the same as any other identical looking coin and should be labeled the same. Labels such as "(W)", "First Strike", "Limited Edition Silver Proof Set", etc. are designed to imply value based on meaningless provenance. If the original packaging means so much, then keep it and don't put the coin in a slab. If the higher quality of strike implied with a "First Strike" means so much, then search through a bunch of coins to find the one that you can tell is better struck than the others. If a coin came from a shipwreck or something like that, then I can understand giving it a special label as it would actually have true historical provenance. The government packaging that a coin was in between the time it was minted and the time it was slabbed does not equate to any meaningful provenance. I really enjoy my complete ASE collection that is in the original mint packaging (except for the 1995-W proof which is slabbed). I'm very retentive when it comes to the condition of modern coins, so it took years to complete. If I had worried about irrelevant 3rd party grading provenance labels, then my collection wouldn't be complete, nor would it look as good. For me, it's about the coin. I do believe that the 3rd party graders add value when it comes to authentication and an opinion on condition. However, most of what they make their money on now is labeling gimmicks. And before anyone points out that some of these special label slabbed coins sell at a premium, yes, I do understand that. That doesn't make them any more worthy to me. Of course if you do enjoy such things, then by all means do what makes you happy. That's what this hobby is all about. Edited by Bret
12/05/2018 11:56 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
 One exception for me may be a label with the designer's autograph, though that has not become available for any of the slabbed Nickels I've been looking for. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Posted 11/21/2018 06:28 am
