Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1869 Three Cent Coin You Vs. NGC (Old Fatty Holder)

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 2,323Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
1920 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  03:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikev50 to your friends list
i am thinking proof in poor condition---
Valued Member
United States
202 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list
Seems to have a slight hint of wear. I'll say AU 58. The obverse date placement doesn't match any I could find for either proof or business strikes this year. As others mentioned it appears to be an off metal strike. Has to be a pattern piece as it can't be a normal strike based on the date placement.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7292 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list
Counterfeit? If it's a counterfeit it's good as the only difference is the date placement is off 1869 the star pointed to the space between 8 and 6, the AM spacing looks larger but I can't be certain. Other than the weird wear on the III the back looks correct, even the right most I has the slight upward curve.

Otherwise I would pass looks like AU details corroded. This is NGC we are talking about 2 coins I purchased in their slabs were details and not graded as such. So this one could be graded wrong also.
Edited by hfjacinto
06/26/2021 08:49 am
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
18687 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list
i'll take another stab at it. I dont think its a pattern or proof nor do I think its counterfeit. I cant see them stamping these on a flawed planchet so I'm going with MS62
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
I'll go PR62 than... I'm at a loss on this one lol
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
5675 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list
With only 600 proof coins issued, I can't imagine them releasing one from a possibly rusted die and an off center strike. So I'll guess again AU-55.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list
Rusted dies and the coin appears MS and very few marks. MS64
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
I'm stumped.

Straight grade, not an off metal, to my knowledge there was no patterns struck with this obverse, and I just can't see this being a proof.

Guessing it went one extreme or the other grade wise, as low as XF, as high as MS65, MS66 if the extreme toning happened post slabbing. I can't think of any other possibilities.

oh the suspense.
Edited by Ty2020b
06/26/2021 6:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3662 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
I have to admit that I've never seen an 1869 silver trey that looks like this coin.

I know there are several pattern strikes for the 1869 TCN, but I've never seen an 1869 silver trey pattern. IIRC, the mint sold used dies for scrap iron during this period, and some of them were used to strike creative mules and restrikes. I vaguely remember the Treasury Department seizing and destroying dies from an auction back in the day. Could this be a private restrike or even a mint restrike from rusted dies?

You have me stumped here, my friend.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2021  03:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
I suppose it's time for the big reveal. Congrats to...

Quote:

Bump111 Is this an off-metal strike? The devices look oddly different from most I've seen, almost like they struck up differently.


you were the first to consider it on off metal strike.

It is indeed struck in copper. That is why it looks so strange, patina is too dark for a silver coin.

My first hint was the title I never said it was a Three Cent "Silver" only a Three Cent coin.

another round of congrats to:


Quote:
mikev50i am thinking proof in poor condition---


The coin is graded straight PR63 mikev50 was the first to think Proof, I thought it pretty obvious from the strength of the strike alone, at least on the obverse.


1869-Three-Cent-Coin-You-Vs.-NGC-Old-Fatty-Holder

1869 Three Cent Silver in Copper
Judd-680, PR63 Brown

1869 3C Three Cent Judd-680, Pollock-759, Rarity: High R.7

PR63BN NGC #635066-015

A dies trial striking of the 1869 Three Cent Silver. Struck in copper with a plain edge and in medallic alignment. While traditionally termed a dies trial piece, these pieces were actually struck by the Mint for sale to collectors. Examples were struck in copper, nickel, and aluminum. Each metal has approximately the same number of survivors, around a half-dozen. Deep blue-gray patina covers each side. Close examination shows a few small contact marks.

From The Collection of William Rau

Heritage Auction #1274 April, 27, 2018 Sold for $5,520.00

Finest known is a PCGS PR64RB (shown below).
1869-Three-Cent-Coin-You-Vs.-NGC-Old-Fatty-Holder
The PCGS coin in 64RB is much nicer looking than the example in PR63 from NGC.

Big thank you to all for guessing and playing along, this was a totally different coin that you probably wouldn't stumble across on purpose. I found it when looking for another coin and scrolled past it in an auction, where it caught my eye, enough to go back looking for it after I had closed the page, I had to go into my browser history because I couldn't get it out of my mind, in just how unusual it looked.

Oh and GrapeCollects You got the closet grade with PR62 in a last minute change.

fortcollins: I too had never seen one of these 3CS patterns before, and I look at every Two Cent pattern piece and die trial I can, seen a ton of 3CN and nickel patterns.

It didn't really surprise me, but it was just so different looking I was very intrigued by it, enough to go through my browser history and go find the coin on the auction page again the next day, then go look it up in a few of my pattern reference books, not much out there on it really. I just found an Aluminum example that sold in January this year: https://coins.HA.com/itm/patterns/1.../1326-3156.s
That one brought $10K+ of course it's a Bob Simpson coin too.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/27/2021 04:16 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2021  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list
Unusual piece. Thank you for the interesting discussion and follow up.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Pillar of the Community
United States
3662 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2021  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list
Absolutely fascinating! Thank you for sharing this critter with us!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2021  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list
Very cool! I think 5k for the 64RB is actually a little low. There aren't many 3CS patterns as far as I can tell, and this one has excellent eye appeal.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2021  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Grape, the $5K was for the NGC example I posted originally, the PCGS PR64RB went for $6325.00 but if you want it's coming up again for sale at auction at the ANA sale by Heritage on August. It's also another Simpson coin, I'm just guessing, but Bet it sell for north of $8,000 this time around.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1...1333-11085.s

Also just found an 1873 Three Cent Silver (Copper) pattern in the same sale.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1...1333-11128.s

Even Heritage mentions how rare these are as this is only the second Judd 1262 they have handled in over 30 years!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/28/2021 8:16 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2021  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list
Well as always @westcoin, thanks for the lesson. I was wayyy off. Had no idea these patterns existed. In my defense, never been a huge fan of the 3CS, but so find these quite interesting.

IMO, the 3CS would have been a much nicer coin had they made it out of copper and had it roughly the same size as the 2 cent. Obviously that would not have worked at the time, but this design would really work well on a larger scale with a bit more relief.
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 2,323Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums