Counterfeit Coins In Online Auction

Thank you for the link to previous discussion. These coins are definitely related to that die. I've had multiple messages back / forth with this auction house - including their first about five minutes after I sent them my first message. They seem genuinely interested in getting this sorted.

All the dollars are not even the same size-but maybe that is just sour grapes on my part.

Emails have gone back and forth with the auction house over the past couple of days, including telling them about posting them on the forum for more expert opinions. Just received the following from them:




Thanks, again, for your observations. It's good to see a seller take these things seriously. I told them that there may be silver in some of these copies and, if so, it would be good to stamp "copy" on them before selling.

I wanted to provide an update on this auction, which took place two days ago. I was in communication with the auction house last week in an attempt to, once again, get the listing removed or at least have a statement added suggesting that the authenticity of the items could not be confirmed. They seemed to be receptive during our half-dozen messages back & forth, but I know now that they were not sincere. I just went in and saw that the lot was offered with the original language and sold for $500. I suspect that the buyer had to know that some of these items were not genuine, but hoped others were.

This is disappointing and marks yet another auction house off my list. I would suggest anyone using this company be extra cautious before bidding on any of their numismatic items.

Edit: A link to the auction lot in question can be found upthread.

Based on the fabric and coloration of these issues these appear to be Chinese counterfeits. Perhaps everyone here is already aware of this fact with the (sour?) grapes innuendo. In either case as I devoted a chapter in my book (Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies) I did purposely spend ~$100 or so and XRF surface analyze these recent Chinese junk types - in most cases they were German silver (Cu/Zn/Ni) & Fe/Ni alloys. Rarely debased silver but occasionally we may see these but the weight is difficult to get approaching regal weight with debased silver as not enough Pb can be introduced in most cases to being it to regal and for the coin to look like real silver. Someone is out $500 on some cheap base metal modern replicas. PERIOD. John Lorenzo, Numismatist.

You guys are probably right - someone got fleeced. But if we see these coins start showing up individually on ebay with high price tags, we'll know that my third option above came true - some unethical person is planning to pass the pain along.

It's a low down dirty shame either way.

Maybe someone wanted them for their "black cabinet" collection.

FYI ebay does not allow replicas, whether or not disclosed.