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 Replies: 17 / Views: 4,952 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Hey all, I would like some opinions on this coin. First, some background: This coin was purchased in the early 60's by my grandfather and his sister for my great-grandfather. They paid $100, which today is around $700. It was the only cent he couldn't find in circulation. He owned a bank in the 1940s, and would bring home bags of pennies to sort through. If he told anyone what he was looking for, they have forgotten. I've been pulling this coin out and drooling over it since the age of 8, but this last time I pulled it out I immediately recognized it as counterfeit! I always thought this cent was a dig find... Anyway, do you think this coin is a genuine 1909-S VDB? Why or why not? I showed this coin to a PN (professional numismatist) yesterday, and within 5-6 seconds of looking at it with a loupe he deemed it authentic. I laughed out loud, and then asked him what he wanted to offer for it. He wasn't interested due to its condition...     |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
It looks genuine but is badly corroded. It might bring $300 to $400 to the right retail buyer.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1374 Posts |
My first concern is the location of the MM, and the black ring around it. My second concern is the flag on the top of the D in VDB. After some poking around, I found images that show both types of VDB: one with a flag, the other without. http://www.lincolncentresource.com/1909vdb.html |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Well, after looking it over again in-hand with a 10x and 60x, there is no flag on the top of the D. No idea how the photo turned out that way. I'm not worried about the VDB now... but the MM location is really throwing me off. With any luck, this is obverse die #5!! HA!  I was thinking the PMD was from the coin being heated, to adjoin it with the fake MM. Edited by Drsandman2
09/13/2012 9:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
The serifs on the mintmark just do not look right.
Send it to ANACS....at least it will come back one way or another.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2200 Posts |
The MM does not seem to have the same amount of corrosion and wear as the date.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts |
The reason the MM looks weird is because, I think, it was added AND is upside down. Looks like an inverted "s" to me.
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Valued Member
United States
300 Posts |
At first I was thinking it looked real, but then as I read up on some of the diagnostics for a real 09-S VDB I have to wonder.... The back looks right but the MM appears to be in the wrong position. http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/6062 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12815 Posts |
Wow, what must a cent be exposed to to corrode like that? Due to the pitting it almost looks cast vs. stamped. Great close-ups, by the way.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
927 Posts |
This coin looks pretty good but the mintmark is too far to the right. If this were truly a fake, I would expect it to be more obvious, especially if it was done over 50 years ago. But even if this coin is real, $100 seems like a high price to have paid for this coin 50 years ago in such a low grade. You need to send this one in for authentication to find out for sure.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Yeah, the $100 price tag seems steep... but remember a non-coin collector was buying a gift for his father, which was to be the "jewel" of the collection he had been building for over 20 years. Not to mention they lived in rural Oklahoma, and at that time the nearest stop light was 4 hours away (today now 45 minutes). If stop lights are that rare, you can imagine the S-VDB as a pipe dream even if you own a bank. I think the coin is a fake, yet I seem to have a hard time convincing others. Even a PN. This fantastic community has a lot of wisdom and experience... I don't think we need ANACS, or some other TPG, as a crutch here. This is a coin with 4 known obverse dies. I wonder if coop or John is lurking around... acloco's point is interesting, because the PN who viewed the coin assured me it was authentic because of the serifs. He mentioned a divet in the upper serif and pulled out a book that showed a VERY similar MM in what appeared to be the same position: directly below the 0 in 1909. The only thing close to my coin is the fourth obverse die, and the MM does not correlate vertically or horizontally. I side with acloco on this point, as the serif on the bottom seems absent, too rounded off. Just a side bit, I own the 1909 S VDB in F12, in an NGC holder (sent it in myself). That coin is die #4, and my prior research on that coin led me to instantly recognize this as a fake. Interestingly, everyone who saw my legit 1909-S VDB told me the MM was glued on and it was a fake... that is why I had it sent in, to prove them wrong. What seems strange is that the MM on the pictured coin appears to be an RPM under 60x. Does anyone have a reference that identifies the reverse dies, and their markers, for the 1909-S VDB? Edited by Drsandman2
09/14/2012 02:33 am
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Valued Member
United States
228 Posts |
Questionable, but I'm not an expert
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
Quote:
My first concern is the location of the MM, and the black ring around it. The black ring was caused by shaving a spot on the coin to add the mint mark.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Thanks BadThad and Shafta. The MM does look pretty great, doesn't it? If it were in the right location, I would have never questioned it.
I'm still curious if there is info on the reverse dies of the 1909-S VDB.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
The MM is wrong. Bulbs/circles at both ends.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 4,952 |
Posted 09/13/2012 9:24 pm
