Counterfeits Are Taking Over Ebay, Slowly..

It's not to mention the broken english titles in these fake listings from china.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/luowu_b/m.h...047675.l2562

[Both sellers joined in 2005]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/lwb01003/m....047675.l2562

I think ebay needs to have your account be over a year old in order to post an auction/bin in China. But yet again, these accounts joined in 2005

The war on counterfeiters selling on ebay is similar to fighting cancer, as other had address these issues numerous time, there appeared to be no cure for the time being, its hard to beat China as they are the king of the ring leaders in counterfeiting.

ebay also will not ban sellers from China and is expecting small communities like CCF and others in 'Helping' ebay at removing bad listings, hopefully before it make the sale. I think it is better to put greater effort at educating the buyers/collectors and make them aware that there's no valuable coins at below wholesale prices, provided that the buyer wants to be educated.

ebay just needs to hire a team of numismatist trained in Counterfeit Detection. Seriously, like 5-7 people like that could solve a big chunk of this problem...

The harsh laws come into play only when someone tries to pass the counterfeit coins/money as genuine.

Not even then usually. Intent is the deciding factor.

Example: The most common place to get a counterfeit bill is from your bank. If the teller gets caught with it in their till they have to pay for it, so they give it right back out if they see it. So you get it and get caught spending it at the supermarket. Nothing is going to happen to you..... unless they find a press in your basement.

I was in the group who did not like or appreciate ebay kowtowing to the VERO's so I was very appreciative of Tabberone and the other sellers who refused to just give in. There were a great many good sellers, some of which had been on ebay since 96-97. I came along in late 97 and sold off and on small things back when ebay was a huge novelty and people would pay silly prices for things. Much like the record companies' drastic overreactions to users downloading songs, overzealous pursuit of copyright led to public embarrassment and may have actually made the problem worse.


I'd be curious to know if ebay considers listing a forgery grounds for getting NARU'ed, even if the seller claims no knowledge that the items were forgeries. For instance, say I inherited some coins that happened to be fake, and listed them, unaware that they were fake. It would be interesting to see if they simply delisted the items or if some sort of punishment was incoming, or if they require repeated offenses to consider a seller worthy of the ban hammer.

In the meantime I think it's wise to keep reporting suspected fakes, and look with careful eyes and common sense at coins that are priced way below market, high end/pricey coins that are not slabbed, coins from low-feedback sellers, or anything that just doesn't "feel" right, especially listings with claims like "no returns" or only 1 or 2 fuzzy, out of focus pictures. Good sellers want to show off their coins, not hide them.

Education of new coin collectors is very important and sadly neglected unless they happen upon this site or the ANA's. But it's that way for a lot of other hobbies. You tend to learn about deceptive sellers and deceptive items the hard way, whether you collect stamps, bottles, cars, records, or whatever.

False, completely false. Mere possession of counterfeit money
can get you up to 20 years. They look to intent, did you know
it was counterfeit.

Arthur, you are correct under 18 U.S. 25.472, it allows for a sentence -not to exceed- 20 years, but there is a second option (mutually exclusive) allowing for the imposition of a fine. The law as written makes possession unlawful as long as there is an intent to defraud, whether or not that intent is acted upon.

Of course, the odds of a Federal judge imposing such a draconian sentence for the mere possession of a handful of counterfeit coins are very slim. How many prosecutors would bother with the expense and hassle of full proceedings against some hapless fellow that had the misfortune of buying a few fake coins off ebay? If they prosecuted the matter at all, they'd probably let him off with a very light fine.

Perhaps you can share with us some "good information" such as a recent (within 20 years) case law citation where a United States citizen was sentenced to the full 20 years for the mere possession of coin forgeries bought at auction?

Remember that the Government has better things to do than go around looking for individual sellers of small amounts of forgeries. Prosecuting those cases is neither cheap nor expeditious, and there is no tangible benefit even if a successful prosecution and conviction is obtained, other than the removal of a minute fraction of a percentage of forgeries in general circulation, at the cost of taxpayer-funded imprisonment for 20 years at Camp Fed for the duly convicted. For every small scale seller you make an example of, a thousand more go unpunished.

Besides, the headline " ebay BIDDER SENTENCED TO 20 YEARS IN JAIL FOR BUYING FAKE COINS" doesn't play well with elected justices and attorneys nor with their constituencies. If anything, it drives the counterfeit market deeper underground, away from public channels, but the forgeries still end up in circulation.


Cf. 18 U.S. 25.485 (Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with intent to defraud...), emphasis added.