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1888 Large Cent With Strange Rim Markings

 
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Pillar of the Community

Canada
767 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2017  2:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This coin looks like it has denticles or partial reeding on the edge of the reverse rim. It occurs in four places and they're all different in length.
The marks just don't look like regular post mint damage for some reason.

Can there be a legitimate explanation for these rim marks?

Cheers, Bill









Pillar of the Community
Canada
3295 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2017  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks some somebody made those after striking.
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United States
15376 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2017  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@HDB, from the pics, it looks to me like the grooves on the rim do not exactly match up to the denticles on the obv and rev. Is that right? I have a hard time imagining how this isn't PSD, but maybe someone else knows of a way.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1963 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2017  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin197 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is just PMD.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2017  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could it be that someone rolled a reeded harder coin into edge of the flat bronze rim..?

The impressions start softly and then get deeper and then out softly again..
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10724 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2017  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I want to say PMD but, I'm not sure..

Looks too 'nice' for PMD
True North
Pillar of the Community
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United States
2821 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2017  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks almost too good and symetrical to me as well. Bill, you are the king of the '88's .. I would have thought that you'd seen something like that before (but I haven't)
Pillar of the Community
Canada
767 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2017  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to agree it's PSD but was just wondering if someone has seen anything similar. It sure does look like reeding or denticle.
Thanks to all for the replies.

Cheers, Bill
Pillar of the Community
United States
1538 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2017  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if swiping it against a file parallel to the file teeth would do it. A file is straight so the marks would be deeper in the middle. Otherwise it does look like denticles on the rim.
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Canada
8924 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill, being on the reverse side only of the edge (i.e., the hammer die) is there any chance that we are looking at a clash from the denticles of the reverse die with the collar die, and that collar clash being struck onto the coins? Collar clashes are common with early silver strikes (but in an opposite way, the collar reeding puts clash marks on the edge of the hammer die...)

http://www.error-ref.com/?s=collar+clash

That said, the depth of the marks lead me to conclude that this is post-mint damage of some sort...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1538 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried filing a copper US cent last night. It does leave the V shape we see in the bottoms of the "cuts" in the last photo. The file would have to be much finer than mine, and there would have to be lots of wear (or sanding?) afterwards to remove the burrs. SPP's collar clash link does look like this too, so... I'm wondering though that the spacing of the "denticles" on the rim doesn't match the denticles on the coin. For example there are 17 on the rim in the upper left of first image, in the space of 15 denticles on the coin. Also, the orientation of the bottoms of the "cuts" in the last image seem to point away from the center of the coin, which is the result I got with a file (from not having the coin exactly lined up with the file). Could this die have clashed with a die for a reeded coin?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
767 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2017  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This could have been used to pry a gear or something or got caught up in some machinery in some way I don't know how anyone could tell.
I doubt they were filed in by hand as the uniformity and curved nature would make that unlikely.
As I said I agree it's PSD but I was hoping someone would maybe have an explanation as to how it could occur at the mint after being struck.
SPP, I'll bring this coin to the next show and you can have a hands on look.

Cheers, Bill
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