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Canada 1c 1858 - Full Vine 15 Stems

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1433 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2017  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's lovely about the Full vine group is that they are very easy to identify, even with bad eBay photos.

Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2017  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would offer up this thought however, die pairs I have not managed to find yet are equally as difficult if not harder to acquire than the full vine group.


Dan,

Would you be able to add any info on the latest or additional finds in the RB,..RC,..or RD groups..?

The books that I have stop at RB19 and RC31 and RD13.

Can you add any info on the the latest newer listings for the above..? As an example, RD14 is out there now..

Thanks...
Pillar of the Community
United States
912 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2017  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have found a few new dies since the last printings of my Volume II in 2012. I published OA4 in an article in the 2016 CNRS Transactions. It remains the only new obverse die I have found. The following reverse dies remain unpublished until I do another printing someday. I have a few coins that people have sent me, that I have not tried to identify yet. These may yield another die or two.

RB20 & RB21
RC32, RC33, & RC34
RD14
Valued Member
United States
281 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2017  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JHax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rob, since the new reverses are all coupled with known obverses, could you tell us what the die pairs are? P.S. I promise to still buy your next catalog!
Pillar of the Community
United States
912 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2017  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OA4 was mated to RC23. As far as I know, this only exists in a specimen striking.

The others are:

OF1/RB20
OB5/RB21
OE2/RC32
OE1/RC33
OA3/RC34
OA1/RD14
Valued Member
United States
281 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2017  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JHax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much, Rob! It continues to amaze how much variation there was in the durability of the Provincial dies. Some produced very few pieces before failing(creating die combinations rarely seen today), while others produced many tens of thousands.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2017  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes..Thanks for getting back with these new die pairs Rob..
..
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1793 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Check gidjit's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add gidjit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
by my calculation, that converts to seeing one on eBay every 3-4 months (in any/all conditions).

Fair warning...the next nice one is all mine,

i dont know about you guys but this is the 1st one ive seen since this thread, it was a buy it now on ebay, these are quite scarce this is the 2nd fv 15 stems I own now


please check out my collection of large cents from 1858 - 1920 (click link below, you DO NOT need a facebook account to view)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...l=4b87156114
also you can see my collection of 1859 die pairs here
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...47995&type=3
Pillar of the Community
United States
912 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have the 50 and the 45 with fifteen stems in the PCGS pop reports, plus another raw one in VG.

Quite a while ago I got PCGS to accept the full vines as varieties by submitting nine of my circulated ones in one batch (seven 16 stems and two 15 stems). Since then, only two other 16 stems have been submitted to PCGS, my 63RB and another circulated one. I think they are pretty cool, but am wondering if anyone cares much about them.
Pillar of the Community
United States
912 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P.S. You will see some other die combinations involving full vines in my specimen book.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3002 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2020  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats, gidjit .. that's a real toughie and I coin I knew nothing about until the work on the 2011 Charlton variety section that Rob unpeeled.
Edited by okiecoiner
06/03/2020 9:20 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
912 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2020  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do agree with the premise that die RA4 coins (full vine-15 stems) are scarcer than the 1 in 150 (0.67%) I published. This was based on one coin showing up in the random sample of 150 cents dated 1858. The 95% confidence interval actually stretched from 0.02% to 3.66%, meaning the mintage could have been as low as about 300 or 400 coins, but probably was somewhat higher than that.

I also think RA1 and RA2 may be slightly scarcer than 1 in 150, but not as scarce as RA4.

RA3 is probably more common than 3 in 150.

I still believe the ratio of 1 in 25 I published for all four types of full vine 1858 cents is pretty close.
Edited by bosox
06/04/2020 12:28 pm
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