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Poll #1: 2018 Preamble to Declaration of Independence Platinum coin - Like it?  
 

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Pillar of the Community
United States
5081 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2018  4:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Poll Question
The mint is releasing a new platinum series honoring the Declaration of Independence.

Here is a pic from their website at usmint.gov:



Its beyond my price range, but something hit me while seeing it. I think I finally figured out why I don't like a lot of modern designs and am wondering how much of a minority I am in.

Old designs mostly focus on a single, major part of the design. New designs seem to be wanting to make full "stories" within the borders of the coin by showing scenery, having many different focal points, or trying to be more "artistic" (by "artistic" I am referring to what I consider the very unbalanced and ugly look of the modern Jefferson nickel OBV.)

Obviously the old designs do include secondary symbols - but these symbols mostly embellish the main design element.

For example, we have:
Buffalo nickels (Indian and Buffalo); Indian Head cents (Indian and wreath around ONE CENT); " Mercury dime" (winged Liberty and fasces); Franklin half (Franklin and the Liberty Bell); Eisenhower dollar (Ike and Eagle landing on moon), and even though the Walking Liberty is sort of a "scene," the main, obvious foal point is the effigy of Liberty. The REV has a prominent eagle.

But nowadays we have things like this new coin:
The “Life-personified-by-Lady-Liberty-teaching-a-small-child-to-sow-seeds-in-a-field-with...The-furrowed-Earth-representing-the-forethought-and-labor-required-to-sustain-life-and-including-a-tree-and-stream-representing-nature,-suggesting-the-need-to-be-good-stewards-of-an-environment-that-sustains-life" coin with an eagle on the REV.


Don't get me wrong, I actually think the above design is pretty compared to a lot of the stuff they have been producing, but I think I finally identified why things like this coin and the quarter programs were never something I cared for much.

Which do you like?





Poll Choices
  I like older design style where the design has one main focal point on each side.
  I like how the new designs have many focal points.
  Both the older and newer styles of design are something I enjoy.
  Gort, Klaatu barada nikto.

- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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 Posted 01/16/2018  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Both the older and newer styles of design are something I enjoy."

I think the new designs ultimately make us appreciate the classics more.

Admit it, if they use classic design elements there would be a different plurality complaining about "been there, done that, give us something different..."
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8147 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2018  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your Klingon needs work...

You guys know my position...only difference between US and Canadian are the leaf or eagle, the only redeeming feature on any coin minted in the 21st century! The coins are produced in the same mint aren't they? You know, that one off shore in the Caymans!

And Earle, it's not just a story tring to be told, it is agenda.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord John Dalberg-Acton

Edited by Crazyb0
01/16/2018 6:33 pm
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25338 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2018  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like the eagle, but the rest doesn't do much for me.
"The value of something is what you can sell it for the same day you bought it."

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 Posted 01/16/2018  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"I like how the new designs have many focal points."

One of the reasons they can get away with it here is that the coin is so large. If they did use a simpler design on a coin this size (like the gold buffalo), it would be relatively boring. Such a large field, why shouldn't they use all of it, especially when you can provide fine details in the hair, cornfields, leaves, etc.?

I think this isn't a question of old design versus new design. Several old designs were just as busy "telling a story". Consider the Trade Dollar (for example): facing left (the direction of the Orient), seated on bales of merchandise, shafts of wheat behind her, olive branch in the right hand, Liberty scroll in her left hand, and the ocean in front of her. Other old designs tell more complete stories than just "wreath" -- the Indian cent (in later years) also included a shield and arrows; The laurel wreath signifies victory. Many of the eagles are holding olive branches and arrows. Several obverses have Phrygian caps (including the Mercury dime), sometimes called Liberty caps. I think the symbolism is just as deep as with the modern designs. We're just able to tell better stories better now, with more sophisticated technologies and art styles.

Now let's look at some modern designs, and the stories they tell. Modern circulating coins feature the bust of a real person (no story there unless someone tells it to you) and other specific things: shield (done before), buildings, eagles (done before). The reverse of the dime is about the more story-filled thing you'll find in decades. Modern bullion designs are largely rehashes of classic designs. Commemoratives are their own special category -- they're intended to tell some kind of story.

And since you mentioned the quarter programs, they don't benefit from the large size of one-ounce bullion coins, but they also have their share of bland designs: Delaware (Cesar Rodney), Michigan (Great Lakes), and especially Wyoming (that cowboy that appears EVERYWHERE). With the Parks series, many of them are going too far, I agree. The space is too small for the grand features many want to depict.

Okay, I rambled a lot there. TL;DR: I think the old/new premise is faulty. There's still room for a lively debate over the preference for single-subject coins (the Buffalo nickel is a fine example) or fine-detailed pieces with many design elements. Both can be highly appealing if done well. It's a shame that so many are not.
Working on: Franklin halves (now complete!), Peace dollars (62-63, four to go), US type (Bust era). What next...?

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 01/16/2018  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
it's not just a story trying to be told, it is an agenda.





The more I look at it the angrier I get.
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 Posted 01/16/2018  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The picture isn't bad, but if you left everything else off you would think it was a Roman or Greek commemorative. I don't recall togas and swords with an olive bag roaming the colonies
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 Posted 01/16/2018  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Buddy and Crazy:

Yeah - some people see the obvious, others believe what they hear on the nightly news as gospel.

Its like the incredibly lame and dishonoring, miss the point. smooth over history, make the enemy seem not an enemy, 9/11 ten year medal they made. When compared with a Pearl Harbor commemorative, its lame and shameful (IMO). When we forget the horrors of past wars and evil acts, it makes it easier to repeat them. Do compare the artwork on commems of both these events. The Pearl Harbor coins can make us once again feel the pain that war brings when our people pass away b/c of it. It homnors the dead who gave their lives. The 9/11 coin has not hint of the innocents who died.


However, I was trying to just talk about the art (and a lot of the current trends) as it is on the coin itself.


@Alpha - sorry I was not explicit enough. I agree there have always been secondary symbols, but was trying to make a point that older coins' secondary symbols are generally not remembered.

For example, I wonder if many people would notice right off if you took away the arrows from an IHC REV?

But with the new coin, if you took away only the tree, or only the child, or only the woman, (maybe not the river), you have what appears to be an unfinished picture with a large void (like the present Jefferson nickel). Its not balanced. All three major elements need to be there to make a whole.

Anyone who has not seen a Kennedy half could likely guess who was on the front if you tell them to guess who is on the JFK half dollar. But ask someone what (who, how many, animal, vegetable, mineral?) is the front of the "Life" platinum coin.

@jbuck
I agree with jbuck - the more bad designs made nowadays, the more we can appreciate the masters of the past.






- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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622 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2018  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How is this related to:

When in the course of human events......

?

Confused

KK
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 Posted 01/16/2018  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bud250r to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I voted for? What
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 Posted 01/17/2018  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How is this related to: When in the course of human events.....


That's part of the Introduction. The Preamble begins "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."


Quote:
it's not just a story trying to be told, it is an agenda.


"Agenda" has become one of those words that gets thrown in when you disagree with something. If you're suggesting that there's a meaning behind the selection of images, that's what art is, and what it means to you may be different than what it means to me.

Children and trees are an agenda? The theme is "Life". A child sowing seeds and a tree in the background are perfectly reasonable, and the less you include, the less you depict "Life".
Working on: Franklin halves (now complete!), Peace dollars (62-63, four to go), US type (Bust era). What next...?

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Pillar of the Community
United States
8147 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2018  01:04 am  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alpha2814, funny the government behind the money produced will "celebrate" life in words, but in actions of law and morality value life itself very little, now lets get to the next coin(s) issued...part deux
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord John Dalberg-Acton

Edited by Crazyb0
01/17/2018 01:05 am
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 Posted 01/17/2018  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys had to make this political.

Knock it off!

Next time I will be handing out vacations.
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 Posted 01/17/2018  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The technology/software available to today's coin designers allows for many design elements to be fairly easily incorporated into a coin. As a result, IMO, many of today's coins take on more of a photographic style vs. older coins whose designs were sculpted out of clay and relied heavily on the artist's ability to express his/her internal vision for the coin/medal via manual manipulation of the clay.





Collecting history, one commemorative coin (or medal) at a time!
Original content (c) Commems, 2012-2018
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 Posted 01/17/2018  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just thought it was the first in the potential Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness set....

I didn't think politics
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