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What Is Considered A Cleaned Coin?

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 Posted 05/08/2018  8:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bjrc to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I know that collectors don't like cleaned coins. Please tell me what is considered cleaned. I have a great many green silver coins that I'm going to try cleaning up by using acetone. I have practiced on low value coins but I still have a lot to learn. The green pvc damage is so heavy that the coins are ruined to my eye. Is this considered cleaning?
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 Posted 05/08/2018  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


The word "cleaned" is used when metal has been removed/altered. This includes things like the micro-but-visible scratches made by a paper towel or facial tissue when it is rubbed on a coin.

The word "conserving" is used when something can be removed from a coin without altering/marking the metal. The most simple form of this is if you spill coffee on a coin, then rinsing it off with water is not "cleaning."

Some chemicals, such as acetone, cannot cemically meddle with the metal and so are also not considered "cleaning," but is used to remove residue such as marker, tape, glue and others.

- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
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Edited by Earle42
05/08/2018 8:19 pm
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 Posted 05/08/2018  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops - forgot to mention - acetone will take care of the green PVC slime, but there may be some surface damage if they have had this for long.
- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Prosp long and liver.
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 Posted 05/08/2018  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ OP
You say that the PVC is very bad on your silver coins . After giving them a long soak in Acetone I would also give them a good application of Verdi-Care . I've never used it on silver before, but pretty sure it will do the job .
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 Posted 05/08/2018  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Verdi-care chemically alters coins, particularly copper.
But don't forget most silver coins are 10% copper.
This Verdi-Care cleans coins, not conserves them.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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 Posted 05/09/2018  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If stuff like Acetone will not remove something from coins, the next step is to leave them alone. However, I've spent many hours not following that by continuing with other chemicals. I've used almost everything imaginable such as Tomato or Lemon Juices, Lacquer thinners, Mineral spirits, etc. Eventually anything on the coins were removed but the end results are usually a harshly cleaned looking coin.
Cleaned coins are a sort of mystery. People clean old cars but don't clean old furniture. People clean old oil paintings but no one cleans an old Egyptian Mummy.
just carl
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 Posted 05/09/2018  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the Forum.
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 Posted 05/09/2018  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Verdi-Care chemically alters coins, particularly copper.
I do not think this is entirely correct. Bad Thad will need to fill in the details here, but I think it only chemically reacts with the verdigris salts (to remove them) and not undamaged copper metals. Of course, verdigris is chemically altered copper and removing it will show the altered areas. However, Verdi-Care does nothing bad to the copper surface and can actually be rinsed away.

Time to read through the development process again...

http://goccf.com/t/62434
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 Posted 05/09/2018  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This Verdi-Care cleans coins, not conserves them.

I have to disagree ; Exact quote from Verdi-Care instructions sent when I ordered my first bottle .
'' Verdi-Care is a water-soluble, nearly odorless ,coin conservation fluid and protectant for the removal of light to moderate coin surface debris and verdigris '' . Coins will be Conserved and NOT CLEANED .
This is just a small clip it of what is mentioned on product summary and directions of use sheet .
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 Posted 08/08/2020  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mariash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hum... I'm a noob at collecting but paranoid by nature (in a healthy not freaky way), so I'm wary about declarations made by a product's own makers. Now, if such a declaration was made by a professional grading company, this would be a different story... Although Verdi-Care may say "Coins will be conserved and not cleaned" is this guaranteed ? Has anyone had issues with professional graders regarding their previously Verdi-Care treated coins? I'm going through the forum trying to find if all coins should be dipped in acetone and then Verdi-Care-d in order to stop any ongoing/occurring reaction. I have Morgan silver dollars inherited from my father's aunt. I think they are gorgeous, but they were kept in PVC holders for many years and some have a kind of cloudy haze on them when looked at with a loupe. I didn't clean them and just re-stored them with proper (modern) numismatic products. Was I wrong to do so? Luckily there is little to no green on the 97% of them. I'm scared to lose possible maximum value (remember the"...but if ...it would have been worth..." moments on Antiques Roadshow?).


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 Posted 08/08/2020  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How about some photos. @bjrc & @Mariash
We would love to see these coins
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 Posted 08/08/2020  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mariash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are a few pics of one. It's not the worst of the lot or the best. I took the pictures with my iPhone (the close-ups with "laser-pointer lens macro with iPhone). I took the close ups because I was trying to determine VAM (but was unable to). I don't know what the striating is. At first I thought it was circulation damage, but the same striae lines are on the lower flat fields too, although there is no gouging in the lower fields but it just looks striped? Any help/info/counsel appreciated. Should I acetone or not? What grade could it be?... There is one line of what may be verdigris under the 8, but only visible with "microscope", so could be just a lighting issue. Also, it looks like the coins got " a little extra" metal here and there... Coin is shinier in reality, but I was trying to minimise direct light to avoid glare.








Edited by Mariash
08/08/2020 8:25 pm
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 Posted 08/08/2020  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaning is when you do something to a coin to make it look better, conserving is when you pay someone to do the same thing to a coin to make it look better.
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 Posted 08/08/2020  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fredcdobbs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No worries on Verdi-Care as to cleaning or conserving, the stuff is mythical and unavailable.
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 Posted 08/08/2020  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have a great many green silver coins


Can we see a few of them?
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13419 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2020  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PVC - or rather, the acidic plasticizers embedded within PVC that slowly leach out over years and decades - reacts with the metal to create the "green goo". The green goo can be removed with acetone, but the underlying metal will be hazed and stained. The damage is already done, the acetone simply removes the goo and reveals the damage that has taken place.

A coin cleaned with acetone may not be graded by the TPGs, but this is because of the underlying damage caused by the PVC, not by the acetone itself. They will similarly refuse to grade a PVC-goo coin that hasn't been washed with acetone. The TPGs have conservation units that clean and restore damaged coins using acceptable methods, but I don't think even the TPG conservators can do anything about making a PVC-hazed coin gradable.

Sadly, in such cases, the "if only" clause is actually "if only the previous owner hadn't used a PVC album".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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