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Help With Silverplate Hallmark Identification

 
 
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 Posted 05/24/2019  8:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Cspiro87 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Anyone recognize this hallmark?

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 Posted 05/24/2019  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@cs87, is that L&C perhaps? Here is my go-to website for hallmark research:

https://www.925-1000.com/

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 05/24/2019  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maker's mark yes.
Not a solid sterling silver hallmark.

Some early American silver can bring astronomical prices at auction, relative to contemporary British silver.
Edited by sel_69l
05/24/2019 9:37 pm
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 Posted 05/24/2019  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cspiro87 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After an exhaustive search I've found nothing at all that resembles that mark. I agree it's not sterling. Any further (free) advice would've appreciated!#128518;
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 Posted 05/24/2019  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cspiro87 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm assuming "200 1/2 10" represents the silver content in some way, but I also can't find anything on that particular mark either. My guess would be it's a fancy way of saying 25% silver.
Edited by Cspiro87
05/24/2019 11:25 pm
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 Posted 05/25/2019  01:32 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I doubt the silver content is near 25%. It's "quadruple plated" and those layers are very thin. Unless the item itself is rare, silver plated doesn't mean much.
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 Posted 05/25/2019  03:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cspiro87 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alright after that previous comment from spruett, let me stop for a second and make it abundantly clear that I'm aware that silverplate is not sterling silver, that it does not constitute high value in and of itself and that my plate is most likely garbage. I regret giving my interpretation of the numbers because it was based on poor research.

Going forward, If you have credible and verifiable information regarding who the maker is/was or what the numbers mean I would appreciate it. Thank you, that's all.
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 Posted 05/25/2019  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some silver plate is far from low value.
There are some excellent examples of antique Sheffield plate.
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 Posted 05/25/2019  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know zip about hallmarks but this one appears to me to be a fancy T&C.

What is the item it's on?
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 Posted 05/26/2019  12:02 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some silver plate is far from low value.
There are some excellent examples of antique Sheffield plate.


I was not attempting to come off as dismissive in any way of you or your piece, Cspiro87. Can we see pics of the full piece, as Nevol asked?

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 Posted 05/26/2019  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cspiro87 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, good call, I don't know why I didn't take full pictures in the first place.



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 Posted 06/03/2019  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the best source I know for silverplate marks.

https://sterlingflatwarefashions.co...gs/SPT1.html

The closest I can find is S&C. Sternau & Company, makers of items like yours and remembered primarily for inventing Sterno. There's a lot on eBay, but I can't find any with that script mark shown on the above website.

This one is very similar in appearance to yours, and bears a quadruple plate mark but not the script hallmark. Many makers used quadruple plate marks though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-S-...!97408!US!-1

Regarding sel's comment, in general American colonial silver is a little pricier than English, for pieces of the same age (and not made by Paul Revere). However the English pieces get very expensive as you push towards the 1600's. My earliest is an English dognose tablespoon ca 1702 and it was not cheap.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
06/03/2019 11:36 pm
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 Posted 06/04/2019  01:07 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I doubt the silver content is near 25%. It's "quadruple plated" and those layers are very thin. Unless the item itself is rare, silver plated doesn't mean much.


Actually exactly the opposite is true...

What is Quadruple plate? Quadruple silver plate items are NOT plated four times, they simply were plated with four times as much pure silver, known in the industry as .925, as any other hollowware item. Quadruple silver plate hollowware was some of the highest quality made during the later part of the 19th century.

This item does not appear to be hollowware, generally things more ornamental like candle sticks and spoons/ladles, etc. Sometimes filled with a hard wax. I used to have to break these items up during the silver boom in 1979, at the coin shop I worked at, hard tough work using tin snips and a hammer to get all the wax out for an accurate weight of the silver.

Silverplate is the common term for electroplating and can be done on copper, nickel silver (sometimes called "German silver"), white metal, or other base element. It is a machine process and contains minimal silver (not enough to scrape off or melt away). Even if a piece is marked "Quadruple" plate, it has only .0012 inch thickness of silver applied to the base metal, not sufficiently different from "Standard plate"-which has a thickness of only .0003 inches. The back of this plate has some fairly deep scratches in it as well, so I'm thinking the base metal is white and not a brass, otherwise we would see a different color in the deep crevice of the scratches, the plating could have been done after the engraving so they may not show the base metal. Would be interesting to have an XFR done on it to see it's total composition.


These marks also do NOT appear to be actual Hallmarks,
but simply an engravers mark. Only the Quadruple plate 200 1/2 - 10 do appear to be from stamps.

I think the look of the plate is more modern, but can't find anything on it either, possibly a generic quadruple plate platter that has been engraved by a local jeweler?

Wish I could help more, I love a good mystery and tracking down answers, but so far I am also coming up blank.
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Edited by westcoin
06/04/2019 01:12 am
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 Posted 06/04/2019  02:58 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, westcoin, for clarifying the silver plating process in this case. My point still stands concerning overall percentage of silver. Whether it's a single .0012" layer or four stacked .0003" layers is irrelevant. It still adds no considerable silver value to the item, and certainly not close to calling it 25% silver.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
-Lucretius

"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
-Kurdt Kobain

My Want List: http://goccf.com/t/282022
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 Posted 06/04/2019  03:57 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes any plated precious metal is only worth a very intrinsic amount, but the real interesting thing is the engravers marks, are they old? I can see a similar look to many love tokens from around the early 1900's here. Maybe a close up photo could tell if this was engraved by hand or with an engraving tool? Looks to be handmade to me.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 06/04/2019  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on westcoin's .0012" plating thickness and an approximate diameter of 12", the tray has 3-4 grams of silver on it, or about $2 worth if you could somehow flake it off.

Regarding sterling hollowware....ugh. After whacking apart a couple of candlesticks I got $5 for the silver foil they were made of.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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