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Anybody Had Coins Stolen By A Dealer?

 
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Valued Member
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  8:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi all. I shipped a group of slabs to a long time (since the 1970's) dealer to sell for me, which he did. I have been paid for 13 of the slabs. The other 88 - nothing! It has been 11 months. I call every week and always get excuses and apologies and promises that payment will be forthcoming. But after 11 months I am ready to consider the coins stolen.
Total of 88 slabs with an agreed upon value of $95,660.
Anybody else had something like this happen and how did you proceed?
I have already contacted the Numismatic Consumer Alliance and Numismatic Crime Information Center though I have not heard back from either yet.
Thanks!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1065 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Evan7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Geez... 95 grand. I would've sold them myself. That is crazy. Might be time to get lawyer involved. Hopefully you have some type of written agreement with the dealer and he provided you receipts for the 11 coins he sold! Good luck
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United States
3989 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hope you have all the legal documents and pictures!

Edit: Call the state attorney.

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Edited by macmercury
07/17/2019 9:06 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2594 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Check silverwolf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sounds like a visit to a lawyer is required here.. Hate to be the devil's advocate here, but why wouldn't you do it in batches, and once paid send another batch,, this is hindsight of course.. Have all the coins been proven to be sold and it's just a matter of payment?/
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12800 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Get a lawyer immediately and I mean immediately to start taking action see what they say is the best way to proceed. Likely they'll say to start suing them and may or may not be ways for the police to be involved as well.

This has happened before and unfortunately it rarely turns out well for the consignors as often times it's because the dealer is using the money that should be paid to the consignor for other things.
Fire A.J. Preller
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12800 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
One other thing I am considering using is the ANA mediation service. Cost is $350.


Waste of money. They have no enforcement power. He either has your money or he's spent it for the coins that he's sold. Check with your lawyer but at this point I would demand the unsold coins back and then figure out what he owes you and if it's significant your lawyer will be your friend. The ANA is worthless in large disputes all they can do is threaten to not let them be ANA members anymore which really means nothing.
Fire A.J. Preller
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United States
14163 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2019  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ACE Mike,

Instead of posting multiple one line replies, please read this CCF FAQ about combining your posts the next time:
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/faq.asp#edit
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Valued Member
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  03:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Fuzzy 317. I think I have everything combined below and deleted all else.

Rookie2018 and macmercury: Luckily I have saved everything. Every paper, every email, shipping receipts, etc.

Silverwolf - I figured it would be reasonably safe due to his long time as a dealer. He attends shows every weekend even now.

Basebal21: I have been in contact with Lyn Stevens who is a lawyer who specializes in numismatic cases.
Also, thanks for your info about the ANA mediation services. I had thought that might be the case.


Pillar of the Community
Canada
2863 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  05:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say that this is an unpaid debt, not a theft. That might seem to be a technicality, but it would be important for a lawyer. Many years ago a dealer was very slow to pay me for something I sent, although it was under $1000. I contacted the local Better Business Bureau, and he paid up. Needless to say I have not dealt with him again.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18739 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Better Business Bureau

You might want to check with them also.
just carl
Pillar of the Community
United States
4734 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In situations like this it sure would be nice if Guido and Vinny could pay him a visit (like in the old days)!

Things like this usually stem from cash flow problems. He has no cash so there is no flow.

The sad thing is this dealer is probably hoping you die a sudden death and that your heirs will then have no idea what became of your coins. If he has done you this way he has probably done it to others, too.

The biggest nightmare right now would be if this dealer gets wind of pending civil or criminal litigation and decides his only recourse is to file bankruptcy. If he does that then you'll probably lose everything.

You need to consult with a lawyer ... NOW ... to discuss the situation, your options and plan a course of action.

Good luck and please keep us updated.
Edited by westernsky
07/18/2019 2:53 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3710 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2019  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joe2007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Appears to be breach of contract not theft as the facts stand. There may be deadlines for you to pursue legal action. You need to consult with an attorney as soon as possible and get the ball rolling. Seems like a fairly simple action that most attorneys could handle. Hopefully the dealer involved has assets for a judgement to attach to depending on how he has his business set up.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4734 Posts
 Posted 07/23/2019  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Valued Member
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2019  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Latest update: Unfortunately not much has changed. I have called the dealer twice this week and continue to get the same excuses. He apologizes and promises that funds will be on the way soon but that is the same thing I have been hearing over and over for months. Tomorrow I will give a call to lawyer Lyn Stevens and see about having a demand notice sent to him, as suggested by several posters, in the hopes of motivating him. If nothing else, that should prevent any problems with reaching a statute of limitations should a lawsuit become necessary. It will show that action has been taken.
An internet search shows that the dealer has a less than perfect reputation but I find no reports of him outright stealing. Of course there is a first time for everything.
Thanks for all the advice folks!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12800 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2019  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With that update, If I were in your shoes I would definitely try and have any of your coins that haven't sold yet to be returned to you
Fire A.J. Preller
Valued Member
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 07/25/2019  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually he did return 17 unsold items a long time ago. The other 88 that he owes me for have all been sold though so there is unfortunately nothing left to return.
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