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1991 Penny Error And Or Cud?

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26683 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2020  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jewelman13, make sure you put it in a 2x2 for protection. The obverse is developing a spot, so you want to protect it asap.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
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 Posted 03/28/2020  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Willburton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Has to be crazy rare to not be listed. Very very nice. I would guess $100+ even in the condition that it is in!!
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 Posted 03/28/2020  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I ak sorry folks, I mean no offense to our Forum's experts ,but I am not so convinced that this is a HUGE CUD !!I am looking at the clear impression of the coin's edge on the jewler's wood board ,clearly hammerrd. Plus the out of round and flattened Rims on Two opposite sides with further indents in the filled. I will be convinced once it has been closely examined and attributed by an expert.




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 Posted 03/28/2020  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe an edge view of the coin would be more helpful. The raised area on the reverse should be higher than the rim on that area.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 03/28/2020  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@chase, those marks on the wood plus the misshapen (i.e. non-circular rims) are what raised my caution flag as well. With that said, Mike Diamond has forgotten more about mint errors than I can ever hope to learn so I'm willing to defer to him.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 03/28/2020  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence,
I have a great deal of respect for Mike D. and our own Forum's experts as well, but as time and time again they have proven me wrong and have tought me a great deal about what I know today.
But at the same token we have also seen that at times the best of us including the experts in the field have made erroneous calls and it is for the most part because they are judging only by looking at the pictures without examining the coin in hand. I am not at all convinced that this is a genuine mint error, there are too many red flags!!
Edited by Chase007
03/28/2020 1:10 pm
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 Posted 03/28/2020  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jewelman13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some more pics:









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 Posted 03/28/2020  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a legitimate error. It's a giant Cud as mentioned earlier. Not sure why some think it's damage, because it's obviously not.

Jewelman13, make sure you get this in a 2x2 asap.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
Edited by Errers and Varietys
03/28/2020 1:35 pm
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 Posted 03/28/2020  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jewelman13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry for those folks that think this was done with a hammer, but this definitely was not. I've seen plenty of coins that were hammered and they definitely don't look like the one I have here. How would hammering one side make a blow out on the other side with leaving the rim still raised on both side? And having a major raised double lipped cud?
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 Posted 03/28/2020  1:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Damage can alter a coin like this coin. The impact on one side of the coin, pushes out the opposite side.

Is there a crease on the edge of the coin?

That show after strike damage if the crease shows on the edge like that.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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16055 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2020  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not sure why some think it's damage, because it's obviously not.


@E&V, you've made your point crystal clear and that is fine. Rather than quash all other ideas, let's let everyone say what they think and contribute to this robust conversation. Thx.

The new pics by @jewlman are more convincing to me. I don't see many cuds this large and so the coin being slightly out of round is a surprise.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
26683 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2020  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Spence. I'll tone it down.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
Pillar of the Community
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1908 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2020  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen this particular cud before, so whatever peculiarities it possesses are greatly outweighed by the numerous signs of authenticity (e.g., a featureless lump on one face and a featureless pucker on the opposite face).
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 03/28/2020  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@mikediamond, What causes the second bulge partially covering the columns on the Memorial? Is this a spalling of the remaining die surface, as opposed to the absence of the portion of the die south of the bulge? Or is it metal flow?

@Jewelman13, Fantastic find! Congrats!
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 Posted 03/28/2020  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Die steel can break off and crumble in unpredictable ways. As you say, this portion of the die face "spalled off". In fact, the entire cud might have spalled off. A cud can represent loss of a vertically extensive chunk of the die face and die neck or can represent a relatively thin flake that spalled off the die face.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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