Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

1856 Florin Fake? Grade?

Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 974Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

Ireland
23 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  10:04 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add andr1us to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi, would like to ask for opinion of fellow forum members.
Got this florin some time ago and was wondering if it is real or not. Weight is 11g (had to use household scales :/), doesn't stick to magnet, diameter 29.97. If so, what grade would it be?

Thanks
Pillar of the Community
United States
6961 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  10:33 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in no way an expert on Florins but that looks like a counterfeit to me
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
48099 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wish I could help but have no experience with these.



to the CCF!
Edited by Coinfrog
04/05/2020 12:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2479 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't verify if authentic or not, it does seem weak near the edge at 1 o'clock (I am no expert on this type) but it looks like a 1856 coin of which 2,201,760 were minted and there is a variety with no stop after the date which would be R2 (very rare) it would make it a quite valuable coin even in this condition, but it would also make me suspicious.

Condition Fine?

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chip in.

Valued Member
United Kingdom
375 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My initial thought was I couldn't see anything wrong with it, but looking closer there are a few concerns:
The border at 12 to 1 o'clock on the obverse looks too far from the rim,
The cross on the top of the crown looks squashed sideways,
The colon closest to the Queen's forehead is closer than usual,
The top edge of the bodice appears beaded whereas I believe the normal is more complex.
The plait below her ear looks very strong compared to the wear on the rest of the coin. (Most examples have this worn away almost completely.)

BUT - I do not have a book on Florin varieties, so I don't know if any of these anomalies are recognised deviations.

I believe that no dot after the date for the 1856 Florin is the norm. I can't find one with a dot and Ebay has lots listed without.
Grade would be just about Fine with a fair wind. Value probably around 20 if genuine.
Edited by PaddyB
04/05/2020 2:33 pm
New Member
Ireland
23 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andr1us to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing your views. As I am no expert, is there any way to confirm if it is silver? Glad I didn't pay that much for it
Valued Member
United Kingdom
375 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Use the sliding magnet test - look it up on google for a full explanation. Here is an extract from one:

"If you place a strong, rare-earth magnet called a Neodymium magnet on a silver coin or bar, it should not easily stick to it. If you are testing coins, you can angle one at 45 degrees and let the magnet slide down. It should slide down slowly - often spinning. If it sticks or it slides very quickly, it is not silver."
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
New Zealand
789 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2020  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just looks and oozes fake. Size is too large, average Gothic Florin is 28.8mm.

Metal looks clad and artificially aged and toned, like someone stuck it in an industrial tumble dryer for several hours.

The snarl on Victoria adds to a very amateurish looking portrait.

Where exactly did you get if from - if it was eb$y, al####a or anything even slightly related to Covid19 land China in the past 20 years - its an el fako.

Do the magnet test too. Silver is not magnetic.

Looks cleaned as well, and wear uneven - obverse has flat shields, a sign of a coin in below VG condition, yet Victoria is Fine.
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2479 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  04:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My book lists Victoria Florins as 28mm but Gothic Florins as 30mm its an old book (from 1988!) but the information is usually good on varieties...

It claims that on 1853, 1856 no dot after the date is very rare and that on 1858,1859 no dot after date is merely rare, 1865 and 1866 can have a colon after the date and it lists various date overs and an extra t in brit: and differring numbers of arc on some years.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
375 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  04:55 am  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which book are you using? I think maybe an update is in order!
Neither Spink nor the current Coin Yearbook mention your dots, although the number of arcs and the britt variations are listed. The colon after 65 and 66 is not mentioned either, but I know exist as I have one at the moment.
Checking on Ebay ALL the 1856 florins I can see have no dot, so maybe your book got them the wrong way round?
New Member
Ireland
23 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  06:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andr1us to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would ice cube test be a valid way to confirm it is silver? Don't have neodymium magnet nor where to buy in current situation.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
375 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  06:31 am  Show Profile   Check PaddyB's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add PaddyB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neodymium magnets can be ordered online very cheaply - I got 20 for 1.99 I think - I always keep one with me when I am out coin hunting.
On the 1856 varieties, I posted the question on another forum where there are many GB silver specialists and got this answer back:
"1853 dot after date (d-a-d) is R3 and no dot is common.

1856 there is only a no dot.

1858 ditto

1859 d-a-d is normal, and no dot R

1865 has both no stop 2 varieties one R4 and the other S and colon which is R2 and no d-a-d.

1866 no dot is R, colon is R3, no d-a-d."


So it seems no dot for the 1856 is the only option - other dates get more complicated!
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2479 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well it seems like it did get it wrong then.

I have a modern Spinks book but I tend to use an old "richards pocket reference" to look up mintages and which years coins were produced because its layout is convenient and it lists variants to look out for.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
New Zealand
789 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2020  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It still looks "Wrong" in my opinion.

Still going with it being a fake, possibly Chinese
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
Valued Member
Poland
67 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2020  04:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is absolutely a counterfeit. The wear patterns are wrong, the tone is wrong, the style of the portrait is abysmal. From the graininess off of her face, as did @Princetane, I'd say its one of the Chinese cast fakes that have flooded the market in the last 20 years. Recently, there have even been more sophisticated die struck counterfeits coming to market.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1509 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2020  03:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Varieties? Magnets? ICE CUBES?!!


Quote:
Just looks and oozes fake."


Quote:
"This is absolutely a counterfeit."


Anyone who does NOT see this IMMEDIATELY is woefully underinformed.

That is not meant to be insulting - it's just truth.
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 974Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.83 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05