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Why Don't Machine Doubling Errors Get More Respect?

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 Posted 05/22/2020  09:04 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thegrendel to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
At age 13 I found a 1936 Lincoln cent with strong Machine Doubling in change. The 3 was doubled, and with a wide separation. It was a striking error, pun intended. Don't have the coin any more, and this is the one that I most wish I still had.

Found another nice example at a show in a dealer's $5 junk box. It was a large cent, 1840-something I think. It had a doubled nose. Wide separation. Striking. Sold it to another dealer about a dozen years later for $50. Now I wish I still had it.

Machine Doubling is generally considered to be a minimally valuable error, and examples sell for only a few bucks, at most. Yet, examples of such are actually rarer than die doubling, and some are actually unique. But, it seems that nobody loves them. Pity, I think.
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 Posted 05/22/2020  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They get no respect because there are too many of them,they are common. It is a matter of supply and demand.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 05/22/2020  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is also a matter of their cause, just some loose bolts in the press allowing some vibration to develop.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 05/22/2020  11:28 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yet, examples of such are actually rarer than die doubling, and some are actually unique.


Incorrect. Machine Doubling is infinitely more common and occurs on almost ever single US coin to some degree.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: http://goccf.com/t/359443&whichpage=1
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 Posted 05/22/2020  11:57 am  Show Profile   Check Yokozuna's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF!

Machine Doubling is damage to the coin. It was a normal strike, but then movement of the die cuts into the devices of the coin after it was struck. It's interesting and sometimes massive, but it is damage and it happens quite often.

If MD is collectable or not is up to the collector. If MD is valuable or not is up to the coin market and so far, it's not.
"Shine, shine, a Roosevelt dime
All the way to Baltimore and running out of time" - Tom Waits 'Clap Hands'

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 Posted 05/22/2020  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For some coins, Kennedy half comes to mind, it's tougher to find examples without Machine Doubling. Even so, if that doubling is dramatic, easily seen by the unaided eye, and if the coin is MS, I'll save it.
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 Posted 05/22/2020  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like the OP may be describing a double struck coin rather than MD. Perhaps a misunderstanding of die chatter?

Edit: to the forum! Glad you're here.
Edited by Bump111
05/22/2020 12:20 pm
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 Posted 05/22/2020  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Yokozuna, I've seen that argument a lot that "it takes place after the strike, and therefore is not an error," but it is still the die that inflicts the damage. By that narrow definition of "error" die caps and double strikes would also be PMD. I would say that it *is* an error, just an incredibly common and boring one.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Machine Doubling does get respect when it's unusually severe, as in this 1991 cent. Calling Machine Doubling "damage" is simply a case of adopting Alan Herbert's idiosyncratic decision to declare the minting process finished as soon as the hammer die reaches the lowest point of its downstroke. I and many others adopt a later cutoff point. I consider Machine Doubling a legitimate striking error.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a dramatic example Mike!

Since we're on the subject and have your attention, how about these?




Edited by USSID18
05/23/2020 09:31 am
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These two quarters are suffering from Die Deterioration Doubling.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
These two quarters are suffering from Die Deterioration Doubling.


Yes but I bet they are the best examples of Die Deterioration Doubling you have ever seen in your life!.....isn't that true?
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 Posted 05/23/2020  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not by a long shot.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USSID18 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not by a long shot.


I tried! Thanks for the feedback.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  11:32 am  Show Profile   Check Errers and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To CCF! To me, they don't get any respect because they're super common to find. I find them all the time CRH (Coin Roll Hunting). Also, they are often on eBay and other websites being mislabeled as a Doubled Die when they're not.
More information about Die Deterioration? http://goccf.com/t/317950
Retired U.S. Mint Coin Die Set information. http://goccf.com/t/302961
Machine Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/332421
Die states progression on coins. Scroll down, so you can see the different die state progressions. http://goccf.com/t/325638
Die Deterioration Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/336470
Split Plate Doubling Tutorial. http://goccf.com/t/357614
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 Posted 05/23/2020  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great examples of DDD can be found on many early 1980s nickels, an era when the mint worked those dies to death.

Mike, with that wide Machine Doubling on Lincoln's profile, why isn't there also much on IGWT?
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