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PCGS Grading Inconsistencies, Resubmission, Reconsideration?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 267Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United States
566 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  12:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hey folks. As I further contemplate PCGS and/or NGC, I came upon a couple more questions. First, would you look at the inconsistency in these two 1926-S Mercury dimes that are currently for sale on eBay!

363254206633
293810455464

It's pretty darn obvious that the second coin is at least a grade higher than the first coin! My sense is the 2nd coin is XF40, so it was overgraded by PCGS.

So this seems to relate to PCGS's "reconsideration" and "guarantee resubmission":

Under "guarantee resubmission", which costs $25, if the owner of the first coin resubmits and PCGS agrees it was overgraded, PCGS will buy the coin from the owner at the "current market value" of their originally designated grade, right? In this case, XF45. I assume that "market value" is based on the PCGS price guide?

So it would seem the seller of the first coin could likely get $275 (minus $25 for PCGS's evaluation) for their coin right now from PCGS (price guide value at XF45) and maybe even use the example of the second coin for justification.
https://www.PCGS.com/guarantee

But if PCGS makes a mistake in the other direction (undergrades your coin), you simply pay them again to regrade it (under the "reconsideration" service)? Doesn't that seem a little odd, why wouldn't this guarantee work in both directions?

Am I missing something here?
My avatar is from the reverse of the US 1987 Constitution Silver Dollar and features 13 diverse people intended to represent the wide cultural and social spectrum of the United States.
>>> E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One) - the de facto motto of the United States <<<
Edited by one_fine_dime
01/16/2021 12:44 am
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United States
8267 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  01:37 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Firstly I'd say the first coin is VF details, not EF-45, and the second is AU-50. So they goofed on both.


Quote:
But if PCGS makes a mistake in the other direction (undergrades your coin), you simply pay them again to regrade it (under the "reconsideration" service)? Doesn't that seem a little odd, why wouldn't this guarantee work in both directions?


Because if they overgrade you lose money and if they undergrade (in theory) you profit therefor no guarantee on upgrade.


Quote:
As I further contemplate PCGS and/or NGC


Best advice I can give is this. PCGS is better for some coins than NGC and vise versa, so consider less which you like more personally and consider which is best for the job.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
7611 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  02:46 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
but I also think coin #2 is over dipped though a long time ago it is now re-toning. Buy the coin never the holder, unless it's very under graded and you are looking to flip it.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
566 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Considering this second coin again, yes, I agree with your AU-50 call GrapeCollects!

Quote:
Because if they overgrade you lose money and if they undergrade (in theory) you profit therefor no guarantee on upgrade.
Yes, this might be PCGS's "theory", this might be how they sell this protocol to their customers. However, it just doesn't seem to hold much water in my opinion. It sounds like the typical, "I get a different answer every time I ask". This isn't how you run a business. I'm trying to think of other examples. Maybe the food industry. If a fine restaurant prepared the same meal vastly differently on any given day, they'd lose their reputation. Consistency and quality is key to success in most areas of business. Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to be called "Professional Coin Grading Service" if I charged customers to "fix" my own mistakes. What business charges customers to fix mistakes? And sure, maybe someone profits if they bought a PCGS-graded coin that was undergraded, because they were able to "buy the slab not the coin", but one wouldn't profit if they themselves had been the one to initially submit that coin for grading and it came back undergraded!

Quote:
Best advice I can give is this. PCGS is better for some coins than NGC and vise versa, so consider less which you like more personally and consider which is best for the job.
Yeah, this has nothing to do with any personal preference (like aesthetics of the holder or something). If I pay for "professional" grading, I want it to be accurate and I want others to have the confidence that it is accurate in the event I want to sell that coin. For some reason and for some areas of coins it does seem PCGS has a better reputation than NGC, which may equate to higher retail value. Clearly by "some coins" you mean like an entire category, right...like early 20th century US coinage? So, do you have an opinion as to which firm is "better" and "best for the job" and why, for this area of coinage? And how do you define "better"...is it accuracy in grading, reputation, resale value, etc? Thanks.
My avatar is from the reverse of the US 1987 Constitution Silver Dollar and features 13 diverse people intended to represent the wide cultural and social spectrum of the United States.
>>> E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One) - the de facto motto of the United States <<<
Pillar of the Community
United States
5136 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see the nasty term "gradeflation" possibly coming into play here.
It depends upon when they were graded.
Grading has slowly started to move downward to more historic values.
So a comparison between two coins would have to take this into consideration.

IMO they are both graded about grade high.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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Canada
3737 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  10:42 am  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you pay for third party certification, what you are getting is simply
a coin in a pretty slab , looked at by three maybe four humans , giving
their best educated PROFFESSIONAL opinion on a given day.
So yes that can and will change if you resubmit a coin over and over again
Sort of like paying three different lawyers until you get the opinion you like.
Slabbing is helpful , but one must learn to grade for themselves if they are
ever going to be a successful numismatist . Simply buying numbers on slabs
will kill you financially over time .
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United States
8267 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2021  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Clearly by "some coins" you mean like an entire category, right...like early 20th century US coinage? So, do you have an opinion as to which firm is "better" and "best for the job" and why, for this area of coinage? And how do you define "better"...is it accuracy in grading, reputation, resale value, etc? Thanks.


Well it really depends on the series. People prefer NGC for FBL Franklins and Washington quarters seemingly, but PCGS for EAC.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17216 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2021  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I assume that "market value" is based on the PCGS price guide?

Nope, just what ever they feel the "FMV" happens to be. It doesn't have to have anything to do with their price guide. You might get the guide price, you might get significantly less.

As for the $25, you pay for them to render an opinion. If they decide they overgraded it, you get you $25 back because they should have gotten it right the first time. If it doesn't down grade then they got it right and they deserved the $25 the first time, AND they deserve it again for having to examine the coin and render an opinion again.

So the gurarantee does work in both directions. If they got it wrong they pay you. if you got it wrong (thinking they overgraded it) you pay them.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
566 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2021  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If they decide they overgraded it, you get you $25 back because they should have gotten it right the first time.
Oh good, that makes sense...I didn't see any reference to reimbursing the $25 fee in the small print.
My avatar is from the reverse of the US 1987 Constitution Silver Dollar and features 13 diverse people intended to represent the wide cultural and social spectrum of the United States.
>>> E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One) - the de facto motto of the United States <<<
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