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2016 Illinois Quarter Die Deterioration?

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 Posted 02/18/2021  7:18 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Yorkish to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good evening CoinCommunity!

Found this quarter in some pocket change, and I'm not sure what is going on with it. The issue can be seen in varying degrees on both sides of the coin, and my initial thought was a die clash because of the clear pattern on the front of the coin from under the U of UNITED to the Q in QUARTER, as well as around the top of the coin, and most noticeably from the end of the last A in AMERICA to the end of the R in DOLLAR, but I can't imagine anything from the reverse leaving a pattern like that. The effect is less pronounced on the reverse of the coin, but is present to the left of the rock. After studying it for a while, I am more inclined to say Die Deterioration of some kind, but I can't imagine how. I used the search function here on the forum but nothing like this came up. Does anyone have any idea what I'm looking at?











Edited by Yorkish
02/18/2021 7:42 pm
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 Posted 02/18/2021  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add td5173 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow I have never seen anything like that. The dips on the side of the coin can't wait to see what others have to say. Strange very very strange
Edited by td5173
02/18/2021 7:44 pm
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 Posted 02/18/2021  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yorkish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks! I'm waiting for coop and the gang at this point lol they always come to my rescue, and I'm grateful for it. I've learned a lot from everyone here.
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 Posted 02/18/2021  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is some exceptionally strong Die Deterioration. I don't think I have even seen that die wear pattern so strong.
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 Posted 02/18/2021  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm thinking extreme Die Deterioration also. Very 2x2 worthy.
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 Posted 02/19/2021  04:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop might want that pic for his files.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 02/19/2021  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yorkish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He is welcome to it of course! I have no problem donating pictures to the coop lol
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 Posted 02/19/2021  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some overlays to see if the coin was damaged. (Looking opposite the incuse areas to see if the design is altered)


Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 02/19/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The area by the motto matches the 'M' area on UNUM. That area looks damaged on the reverse on that area.
On the other side by United to Quarter, the opposite side on near the 'I' on Illinois. Note the rim on that area is also damaged. So this coin was altered post strike. The images help to identify this was the case.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 02/20/2021  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yorkish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't underatand how it could be altered, there's no damage to the coin that I can see. Not questioning your determination, just stating that I don't understand how you got there. Cool overlays though!
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 Posted 03/12/2021  09:29 am  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WAIT. I just figured out what this is.

Soft Die: http://www.error-ref.com/soft-die-errors/
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 Posted 03/12/2021  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If anything, the die was altered by die polishing. With these devices on this area being incuse on the coin, the dies devices would be raised. So when polishing happens, the dies were polished over the raised areas of the devices, thus weakening the devices that would be incuse on the coin. Thanks for the extra images, it shows that this happened all around the coins devices, not just on one area.

Going back to the Obverse images, The two images of the Motto area on the right side of the obverse, in one image there appears to be a shadow, the other image doesn't show a shadow, but appears to be extreme die wear. Why? Not sure. As the overlay doesn't show any issues of anything clash affecting those areas of the coin. But there doesn't appear to be any hub doubling because that would occur into centers of the designs of both sides. So I'm still left with possible damage to this coin.



CoopHome : How do incuse devices get thinned on coins?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
03/12/2021 10:31 am
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/12/2021  10:03 am  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, what do you think of it being a soft die?

I strongly disagree with this being damage, fwiw.
Edited by Tanman2001
03/12/2021 10:03 am
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 Posted 03/12/2021  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tanman2001 has it right. soft die that wasn't hardened properly and deforming in use.
Problem is the coin is circulated and the pictures are contrasted? B&W? maybe to show it easier, but it's unnatural for the coin appearance in this color scheme.
I think the circulation is being misunderstood as die wear/deterioration.

Anyways my 2 cents, I think Tanman2001 called it.
Edited by Big-Kingdom
03/12/2021 10:09 am
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 Posted 03/12/2021  10:17 am  Show Profile   Check Akkdayam's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Akkdayam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with tanman
"Uh are you alright"
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 Posted 03/12/2021  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For what it's worth, I think it is some kind of die issue.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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