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My Sis Was Told This Was A Counterfeit, By A Coin Shop, But Can Anyone Help (1804 Dollar)

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Valued Member
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 Posted 01/31/2022  1:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This coin also came from our 94yo grandfather, that worked in banks all his life, but she brought it somewhere for an appraisal and they said it was a fake coin due to the reeded edge! Said it should be smooth on the edge, but someone se said there was a commemorative style issued for that particular date, which could explain the reeds? Seems like the coin shop she took it to would've known that, so if anyone has any ideas, I'd certainly appreciate!

*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***





*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
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 Posted 01/31/2022  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jakes Coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately this coin is 100% fake there were only 20 of the 1804 dollars struck & is considered one of the rarest US coins ever. I believe there to only be a plain / lettered edge, so reeds are a dead giveaway that it is counterfeit. Also the overall appearance of the coin screams fake.
Edit - Not to mention every 1804 dollar was struck as a proof.
I've only been collecting for a couple years (2017). Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set: "knowledge is power" -Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Jakes Coins
01/31/2022 1:40 pm
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 Posted 01/31/2022  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow ok thanks! I'm not questioning your opinion or expertise, but what part of the coin was screaming fake to you?
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 Posted 01/31/2022  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jakes Coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Wow ok thanks! I'm not questioning your opinion or expertise, but what part of the coin was screaming fake to you?

The overall strike looks mushy, lots of weakness.. Overall look appears wrong.. Also all of the 1804 dollars were struck as proofs.
I've only been collecting for a couple years (2017). Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set: "knowledge is power" -Thomas Jefferson
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391 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2022  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd be shocked if pawpaw actually purchased this coin from anyone, most of his stuff he got from the banks where he worked? But you've not heard of some commemorative issue for that year, that didn't have smooth edges, and wasn't as valuable?
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The US mint didn't start using collar dies in the minting process until the late 1820s or early 1830s, so any coin that has a reeded edge (which is created by a collar die) is 100% a modern fake.

Also, wring forum. This is the modern error and variety coins page.
My best finds:
1996 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/372066
1995 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/376071#3225244
1972-P DDO-008/FS-108: http://goccf.com/t/405558
2000-D Maryland Quarter Rotated Die http://goccf.com/t/394553
1988-P "Reverse of '89": http://goccf.com/t/399390
Massive strike through error on 1957-P Jefferson nickel http://goccf.com/t/402781
Edited by SamCoin
01/31/2022 2:07 pm
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry still learning the do's and dont's of this forum! So I'm assuming you're not suppose to hit the 'New Topic' button that's back at the top, next to 'New Poll" button, when you're trying to start a new topic? I need to go to 'all forums" then find a category, once inside, then hit "New post"?
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty awful, even for a fake.
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the advice! My sis is gonna be the one upset!! He didn't give that one to me! And they looked it up and saw the value, which prompted them to take to a dealer! However, I showed the pics she sent me to my paw-in-law, who said he looked up something talking about a commemorative issue that wasn't as valuable, but couldn't find much else about the details of the commemorative? But wow what a world we'd live in if everything on the internet was true!
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought it was in pretty good shape for a 215 yr old coin, just comparing to my coins that are from just 100 yrs ago
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCB420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Then again I have no idea what the real coin looked like!! I did notice, there was no denomination anywhere, was that common back then, or just because it's a fake?
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 Posted 01/31/2022  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jakes Coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Then again I have no idea what the real coin looked like!! I did notice, there was no denomination anywhere, was that common back then, or just because it's a fake?

On a real one the denomination would be stamped on the edge. Instead of reeding it would be stamped "Hundred Cents One Dollar or Unit" on the edge. This was common amongst early coinage. PCGS has some nice photos of the 1804 draped bust dollar.
I've only been collecting for a couple years (2017). Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set: "knowledge is power" -Thomas Jefferson
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 Posted 01/31/2022  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can also weight it and do a tissue test or ice test to see if it is silver. Looks fake to me also.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/31/2022  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many series (not just the USA) may not have had a denomination as a part of the obverse / reverse design because the size of the coin and weight made its denomination self evident. Especially with silver / gold coins where the weight of the metal mattered in its face value and as a result a transaction using coins from multiple issuers wasn't uncommon. For instance, in the early 1800s a lowly minted US silver dollar from its formative years and a commonly found Spanish Colonial 8R might be rather interchangeable as long as the rough weight of silver was the same. US Trade dollars came around decades later as the US tried to hold their place with the international silver trade market (especially around the Pacific) even though issues at home like the Morgans actually decreased in silver content. Notably, Chinese merchants therefore preferred other countries' "silver dollar" equivalents that kept the old standard up.

I lived in China for a couple years and would come across the 1804 copies rather frequently wandering around the markets. What you are showing us is exactly what the Chinese stuff looks like.
My hoard of '82s is up to 241! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 382 x 1, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 6, 1582 x 13, 1682 x 17, 1782 x 60, 1882 x 68, 1982 x 45
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 Posted 01/31/2022  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately this is one of those things that doesn't require a lot of explanation. There are only 15 known and they're all multi-million dollar coins. You're just not going to find one in grandpa's collection.
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 Posted 01/31/2022  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I'm imagining this came into one of your grandfather's banks in a roll or bag of silver dollars and got intercepted there. A fun pickup for a pocket piece, as long as no one tries to represent it as real in attempting to sell it.
I never pay too much for my tokens...but every now and then I may buy one a little too soon.

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