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A New Coin Cleaning Project. 1803 Large Cent

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/18/2022  5:59 pm Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
i posted some process pics of removing environmental problems from a couple coins in the past. I enjoyed the discussion and responses.

i bought a coin recently that I think could be a good addition to that discussion. I think its an S-251. here are the sellers pictures of the coin:




i dont have the coin in hand yet. ill post my own images when I do. I plan to post periodically as things happen with this thing. sort of like a live process discussion. I'máhopeful that this can be salvaged and become something nice. it will be good practice regardless of the final outcome. I dont think I can make it too much worse.

tracking says the coin will be here monday so ill have my next update after that.

you can see the 1813 here: http://goccf.com/t/431844

and the 1793 here: http://goccf.com/t/429618
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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74966 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The white surfaces in these pics worry me.
Edited by Coinfrog
11/18/2022 6:18 pm
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 Posted 11/18/2022  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lol. there isn't much about this coin that isn't at least a little worrisome.

this seller really amps up the brightness of their photos in an editing program. I havent bought from them before so I'mánot sure what to expect when I get it in hand.

my guess is that fields will be either pumpkin colored or a light tan. probably kinda unnatural looking from past poor quality cleaning that happened before it was mounted on something. I'máhoping that its glue on the obverse rather than something like solder or a brazing flux.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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1409 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll be interested to see pics of the coin in hand, as well as your initial assessment.
My U.S. Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278808/
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20588 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin needs immediate cleaning, passivation of the verdigris and subsequent preservation.
The verdigris, if left in place, will continue to cause on going progressive damage.

Some of the cleaning, passivation and preservation techniques relating to ancient copper and bronze coins and artifacts should be seriously considered.

Museums are well aware of this type of problem.
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 Posted 11/18/2022  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have a lot of faith, do keep us up to date!
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26052 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree @sel. Looks like BD to me. @car, I'm looking forward to seeing your progress on the conservation process.
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10563 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This could be fun, eager to learn what develops.
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 Posted 11/18/2022  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I plan to post periodically as things happen with this thing. sort of like a live process discussion.

I'm intrigued with this...knowing the amount of time/hrs you spent in the past on your other conservation efforts and the results it yielded.
As if the time you spent in the past wasn't enough...
I would really like to see how you go from analyzing this coin and then your course of action.
Perhaps a pic of the work environment/table you'll be working with...tools...containers...solvents...lights...eyeware/magnification...
Really looking fwd to this "live process discussion".
Thanks for inviting us!
smat
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 Posted 11/18/2022  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like this coin has already been cleaned . Verdigris and corrosion really plague's this copper piece . Your attempt at conservation should be quite interesting .
Tony

For Butch & Jim rest in peace .
Edited by T-BOP
11/18/2022 9:40 pm
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928 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2022  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Allcoinage to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes be good too see the outcome cause I have a 1935 Australian penny that needs restoration probably just as bad as those coins pictured. Good luck
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 Posted 11/18/2022  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim, I've got some interesting papers on conservation work that ancient coin archaeologist wrote on conserving bronze coins, might be some stuff in them to help. Drop me a PM email and I will shoot you copies of the PDF's I have. There are some not too hard to get chemical powders that might be of use in this coin.

In the mean time Verdi-Care would be a start possibly. A long soak, like a few days perhaps? One of my projects: http://goccf.com/t/378882

and I know you are probably familiar with Bill Eckberg's conservation video, but if not and for others that may not know...
http://goccf.com/t/404457

Please do avail yourself the rest of that posting, the thread gets quite interesting with input from a forum scientist here. Also the links take you down the CCF conservation and chemical rabbit hole. A worthy short read, delving into the attempted breakdown analysis of Blue Ribbon among other goodies.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, Early American Coppers Member (EAC) #6202, Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), Conder Token Collector Club (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS), & Numismatic Bibliomania Society (NBS) Member in good standing, 2ó variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
11/19/2022 12:14 am
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 Posted 11/19/2022  11:09 am  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow. this has gotten a heck of a response. I hope the coin doesn't disappoint.

@ smat - thats a great idea. ill take some pictures of tools and work spaces and talk about that stuff along the way.

@westcoin - pm sent! I look forward to seeing those pdfs! that Verdi-Care thread is great. so much good technical info! I had not seen that video from Bill Eckberg. thats a great video.

something to add to what Bill talks about in that video - if you are going to use a jewelers brush keeping it clean is really important. as they pick up gunk they get more rigid. the material they collect can potentially scratch your coin.

my go to coin care product is Blue Ribbon. its just what I have and have used. I have no idea how it compares to other products. its not commercially available and the bottles sell for a small fortune.

one of these days I plan to start exploring other options for coin conditioning and treatment. id love to find a $5 solution and sell my blue ribbon bottles.

here is my hoard of blue ribbon:
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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9183 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2022  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last time I had a Blue Ribbon (I had 2 full and a partial bottle), I was moving so I decided to toss out the bottles and I'd just get more after I moved, I really didn't want them spilling and damaging stuff. Heck they only cost a couple of dollars then.

I had packed everything into a Storage Pod and moved from SoCal back to Colorado, but ended up not staying, I ended up back in SoCal. I left my storage/moving Pod in Colorado at a storage center for 2 years before moving again, and then another 2 years before I had it shipped to Texas where I'm at now. Of course during that time I had not been doing anything really with coins and forgot all about the Blue Ribbon bottles - until I found out now they were gone, no more sales and impossible to get unless one got lucky and found an old bottle plus willing to pay $100+ for a little bit. DOH!

P.S. I have been searching for jewelers brushes for a couple of years now. Had a couple of dealers in EAC tell me they could get me one or two, but never came through even after I pestered them. Finally I recently found a suitable brush and ordered two of them from a company called Esslinger (watchmaker/jewelry shop supply) out of Minnesota. They ran me $6.49 each + shipping so a pair of them was a little over $18.00 They shipped super fast in a nice box. (#4 Euro Tool Germany) was the brush model - the Super Soft one.

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-clo...3-piece-set/

"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, Early American Coppers Member (EAC) #6202, Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), Conder Token Collector Club (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS), & Numismatic Bibliomania Society (NBS) Member in good standing, 2ó variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
11/19/2022 8:22 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3692 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2022  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.... Really looking fwd to this "live process discussion".
Thanks for inviting us!


Here, here!

This should be an interesting project.

Is that some sort of "serpentine" gouge on the obv or what you are hoping turns out to be glue?
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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 Posted 11/19/2022  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for that link westcoin! ill probably order a few. I left mine in colorado springs over the summer. I dont use them much, but at that price I can afford to have an extra on hand.


Quote:
Is that some sort of "serpentine" gouge on the obv or what you are hoping turns out to be glue?


yeah. that zig zag thing is what I was referring to. hopefully its glue. fingers crossed.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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