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1944-S Improper Planchet Composition?

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United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  12:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found an odd looking 1944s penny and found that it looked similar to a Netherland .35 cent struck at the same time, and found previously. However, my coin did not have the correct weight; only 3.0 grams. I weighed a steel penny on my scale and it also weighed 3.0g, while another '44 penny weighed 3.5g. My penny is NOT attracted to a magnet.
I didn't think I'd be able to get the composition tested, so I did my own chemistry test; a heat test. The colors correspond to a heated steel color chart!
I definitely think the penny is the wrong composition, and definitely has less copper than it should and more of some other elements?



Edited by CrackDie
03/27/2023 12:35 pm
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18215 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Check Dearborn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I'm confused here, maybe you can clarify it.
Your first images shows a cent along side another Foreign 'silver' cent from the Netherlands, then you show a color template of 'steel' colors resulting from different temps and cooling steps.

Are you saying that your coin is of Silver or Steel?

What is the weight of your coin? (Down to 2 decimal points please - should weigh 3.11 grams.
Does it stick to a magnet? never mind on this item (I missed that tidbit of information.)

Your coin weighs 3.0 - that is within normal specs. I'm wondering what the true weight would be if measured out to 2 decimal points.
Edited by Dearborn
03/27/2023 1:26 pm
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5093 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the photos the coin seem to be plated. The scale of the color you post is for what kind of steel? (not all react same at different temperatures)

If you want to know wat alloy has your coin just made an XRF test.
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United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silviosi,
my coin is at 3g, I think plating would have increased the weight. If you look at the pic prior to heating, you can clearly see it is not plated, and is very pitted...which would NOT be the case if it were plated.
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United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dearborn,

"Your first images shows a cent along side another Foreign 'silver' cent from the Netherlands, then you show a color template of 'steel' colors resulting from different temps and cooling steps"
- it is the same penny. Just before and after heating. The heating was conducted and the colors are NOT soot or surface color.
I don't know the metal composition. I'm just stating that this penny has the "wrong" composition. I don't know how to test, the cost, or whether it would be worth trying for this penny?
I just think it is NOT the proper composition, and that I have demonstrated that.
Otherwise, not trying to do anything else with the penny. I will just keep it. Its cool looking, and was a cool experiment.
New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dearborn,
The top right penny is prior to heating. I was comparing to the Netherland quarter, that had similar color, and was implicated in the "wrong planchet" sold (images bottom right). But I don't think its the Netherland planchet because it would weigh 3.6 or so...
Also, I can't measure any more than one decimal with my scale.
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United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dearborn,

"Copper will also turn to a reddish hue if heated as well." What looks "reddish" to you? Copper wont turn the color spectrum that I show, though. A spectrum that directly MATCHES the "steel" color chart. THAT is the point. The top pic was NOT heated. I don't understand why you tell me copper will turn reddish? The before pic does not look like copper, that is why I looked into the issue, and the heated (after) pic does not look "reddish".
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United States
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 Posted 03/27/2023  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dearborn,

The bottom and right edge of the reverse are blue/grey, like a steel penny.
New Member
United States
36 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a brilliant chemistry experiment, but seems to be totally misunderstood.
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United States
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 Posted 03/27/2023  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CrackDie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silviosi,

I address testing and cost in my first post. In addition, a standard test would NOT be accurate enough to detect composition variation necessary to validate the expense of testing:
"As a rule of thumb the accuracy "out of the box" given by the difference between XRF....the accuracy out of the box for minerals can be within 20% of the lab assay or even more if the sample is not homogeneous enough"
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 Posted 03/27/2023  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another possibility to try to eliminate: Unfortunately you can buy, and have been able to for a long time now, fake 1944 steel cents online from China. They are pitted like this b/c they are cast fakes. I own one I bought when studying fakes modern coins years ago.

These are typified also by the rim appearing like the rim showing in the REV pictures of yours that you posted. Although the info in the following link is about a 1932 fake quarter I bought at the same time, look at the pics of the rim to see the imperfections (worse on the quarter) and similarities of area to that of your coin's rim.
http://goccf.com/t/136142

Sorry I do not have it at hand to weigh or see if it sticks to a magnet. Just saying they exist, and I have seen people find them roll hunting who have posted them online.
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18215 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2023  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Dearborn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, so you heated this coin yourself to help you determine the metal composition?

Also, if you please, when you quote me, please keep my words on a separate line from your responses - it will help avoid confusion.
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 Posted 03/27/2023  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the WWII period saw variances in cent composition as the mint sometimes incorportated spent shell casings, so your coin might have more tin than most, and it might have been bleached by environmental exposure or an old cleaning, here we see such coins far more often than an improper planchet
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 Posted 03/27/2023  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Consider submitting the coin to a reputable 3rd party grading/assessment service. If you do, please let us know the result. Thanks.
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 Posted 03/27/2023  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure why the various color heat test for steel, since it is not magnetic, wouldn't that damage the coin and value?
A XRF test should be more conclusive in this case.

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