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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,336 |
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New Member
United States
28 Posts |
I am new to this aspect of collecting and have been looking at many of my Morgans and Peace dollars looking for certain key characteristics, etc. I have been using a 15x loop. I have missed details, overlooked some obvious characteristics, and my eyes are going blurry and cross-eyed. So, I suspect there is a better way and I am curious as to what other tools you might use to more easily examine a coin, capture a detailed image and examine multiple coins in succession. Anyone using a microscope, or somehow displaying the image to a PC or flat screen HD monitor? Appreciate your thoughts? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
   With that said, it's not about the equipment, it's about the experience. One doesn't learn VAMming in a month. There are certain things (date location, mint mark location, doubling, die scratch lines, the like) you automatically look for after determining there isn't any smoking-gun attribute on the coin. By the time you're doing this with your coin, though, there are additional hurdles to overcome. First, the minute nature of some details. It'll definitely require some serious magnification for the less-prominent VAMs. Second, the relative lack of information about the majority of VAMs. I can bring literally whatever magnification I wish to bear on a coin, and throw that detail onto a large monitor in clear focus. For all that I probably can't confidently attribute close to half of all known VAMs without finding someone who actually owns one for comparison. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Part Two. You will find a USB microscope to be an affective tool in this regard. I hesitate to recommend one, though. They're relatively weak optically - optics is one field where you truly get what you pay for - and are generally cursed with digital cameras of barely-adequate capability. It's relatively easy to use one in your home to see these details visually - focus doesn't have to be flawless to see minute doubling you can identify - but the end-result image produced for publication won't always clearly reveal what you see here. Furthermore, it's difficult to find an instrument that will both image an entire coin, and accurately magnify at the level required for serious VAMming.
You can drop $200-250 on a decent USB microscope, and down the road as your skills improve you're going to find it to have been an inadequate investment. Decent stereomicroscopes, which would be my weapon of choice as a VAMming tool, start at around $350 before you do what it takes to adapt a camera to one. Not all cameras - very few, in fact - have software available which will allow you to throw an image onto your monitor in real time.
It's not like I have a mortgage's worth of cash in my own setup. I could not own one of the rarer 1878 VAM-14 series, or any but the cheapest MS66 Morgans, for the total value of everything you see in my first image above. Call it $1500 (entry-level) to give you the ability to create professional-level imagery of VAMs. Plus the computer.
And, as I said above, even at that you're still going to be stumped regularly because the conclusive info just ain't out there.
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Pillar of the Community
2224 Posts |
 Wow, very nice! |
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Valued Member
United States
110 Posts |
WOW! Nice set up Dave. Makes my USB Microscope camera look kinda puny :-)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Dave, I have to smile at your post......Nor do I winch....At how far you have taken in your endouvers....... Vamming is a cool subject for the Morgtan series, as THEY ARE ALL ....Vam's.....error's of some sort....by year and mint mark.... AS much as I hat to say it.."Knowledge is the KEY" Even as a beginner, one will notice something perculiar about your coin....Its the first step....in understanding What is a VAM.....what makes a VAM...and other coin denominations...ALSO have VAM characteristics..... OOOPPPS.......they have characteristics..,.but Vams are noted for only one resource........ VAN ALLEN AND Malice....... The thing is the catagourise die errors of the Morgan series and many other denominations also have the same die charactoristices know by other nominclature such as RPMS ect... EQUIPMENT.....the eyes is the best example until you get old like me...in stores I use a 5X lens to browse... Still if you have no back round you still don't even knwo what your looking for.......and if you find something you then buy something thats not worth any thing....Except you found something... LISTEN: Learning to find whats collectable is a learning curve in what ever..furniture ect....you are deciding to collect...There must be knowledge, understanding of what you are collecting....not buying on a binge... Why would dave or many like us have more equipment? its due to we research the common and the unconmmon and know the difference...the fine points.... For the beginner...you don't need the 1,000 camera and acessories..you need to "investigate" the fundamentals of Vamming....research your own coins......learn what is doubling..and what is not...understand what a Clash is..and if there is letter transfer...What is letter transfer? were it can be found if present... Oh well its time for bet...best wishes you vammers, and happy New Years...g |
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New Member
 United States
28 Posts |
Thanks for the replies. Let me restate or reposition my question somewhat. I have been collecting coins for sometime now and have close to 400 Morgans. I am 9 key dates away from having a complete AU - MS date and mint mark set. I frankly don't have the funds to buy some of the very expensive coins until I divest, save, and sacrifice other coins I have for the prized dates. To continue my learning and understanding of the Morgan and to occupy my OCD tendencies, I began examining the coins I have more closely with the intention of finding unique characteristics and features which has lead me to VAMing. So far, I have been using a 15x loop to examine coins. After about an hour of that, my eyes are frankly toast - they hurt, are blurry, and I end up missing things I missed spikes on the chin and lip the first time I looked at one coin. When I examined the coin the second day, it was immediately obvious. Clearly my eyes with the loop aren't the answer. I am interested in understanding how others are examining their coins and what they use to see and capture the details. As example, SD mentions he uses a camera and can display the image to a larger monitor. I would like to know more details of how he is technically doing that so I can try a similar approach. I have an HDMI output from my camera but have yet to be successful displaying the video feed to a PC monitor I did get the feed to work on my large Plasma TV which was pretty wild but the family won't let me take over the TV. Yes, I am new to the VAM process but if I don't use a decent tool and process to examine the coin in my attempt to attribute the VAM, then I risk making incorrect determiniations which increase frustrations. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I quite understand your position; my tolerance for loupe use is similar to or worse than yours. The software I use originated with Canon, and is included with each dSLR they sell. Other (but not all) dSLR manufacturers offer such software - Nikon and Olympus come to mind - but they will charge you for the privilege. There is aftermarket software from a company called Breeze Systems, as well, limited to Canon and Nikon support. All of this is targeted towards photography, not necessarily live research. Since my dSLR offers Live View, I'm capable of seeing images in real time. I'm thinking a USB microscope is probably the best solution for you, given that it's probably not in your budget right now to forget coins and drop $1500 on camera gear. A nice stereomicroscope will greatly ease the burden on your eyes, but probably not enough to justify the price of admission and you're still left with providing a photographic solution. Keep in mind, I am completely spoiledmy opinion is informed by my own equipment, and I've seen perfectly acceptable results from members using USB microscopes. If you concentrate on a unit which doesn't have the ability to do full-face images as well as small details, you should be able to find something that will satisfy your needs for "reasonable" money. Have a look into our Photography Forum: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...?FORUM_ID=81We discuss the topic frequently there. If you do a site search for the keyword "microscope," concentrating on that forum, you'll come up with ample results to help you make a decision. Many there know considerably more about USB microscopy than I, and will be happy to help. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
Quote:
SuperDave: I'm thinking a USB microscope is probably the best solution for you, given that it's probably not in your budget right now to forget coins and drop $1500 on camera gear. A nice stereo microscope will greatly ease the burden on your eyes, but probably not enough to justify the price of admission and you're still left with providing a photographic solution. The stereo microscope is the best thing I ever got for any variety, I especially appreciate it as I get older. Many lower cost, yet high quality set-ups are around, I have a LW Scientific Achiever model, my other hobby is astrophotography, so I already had a small USB camera for lunar shooting through my telescope, I drop that in place of one of the eyepieces to get photos, works great, and the camera was only about $50.00 that I use. That said I have had all the optical toys over the years to play with from a simple magnifying glass to an electron microscope. My main tools I have when I'm vamming new dollar acquisitions, are: Computer on Web Browser set to http://www.vamworld.com7x Loupe 14X Loupe Good lights comfortable chair Stereo Scope Van Allen Mallis Book and assorted other reference books on VAM's (here is a web page I created over at VamWorld.com a couple of years ago on good silver dollar reference books). http://www.vamworld.com/message/vie...733#11288571And last - A pot of excellent coffee  "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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And last - A pot of excellent coffee I hadn't realized that required mentioning.  Seriously, though, if I weren't so focused on photography, I'd probably have something like a Brunel MX-3 stereoscope and be done with it. And...an adapter for my dSLR.... Oh, well. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
The thing is...weather one has all these fancy gadjets to make our quest easier... It still comes down to how much time you are WILLING to research...........on your own. and ask for advise....PRESENT the facts....and your Ideas.... Some of us are very over board.......in our studies.. to help new people and guide there way........some who want free help.....which we give freely here.......But the one most notable item is.......lack of detail....PHOTO....Would be/could be?....A one picture...........DEFINE what VAM it is..............As the most recent thread....ruffly.. what do I need to get started... IN my perspective....is NOT^ all of the high lens stuff.. As a NEW VAMMER...Its about learning the BASICS of what vamming is....If you dont understand what die doubl;ing and so for is about and such your to far behind.... ITS NOT ABOUT.......I have a doubled ear or such.....MEANIing it is the absolute determing factor of the VAM's varietie although there could be 30 such like vams IT take time t6o know the VARIETIES for the year in question....I love the 1878 series.....its the basics and basis of vamming, but here are over 230 varieties for this one year alone...nuff said |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
While one can acummulate all the toys, its one's
EYE,
that must see the difference.....and the toys can confirm with there microscopic endevors look for microsccpic evidence
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
Super Dave that is one heck of a set up ! I am still trying to get the hang of shooting my coins and just learning about the vams. This adds a whole new layer of coin collecting to my fun!
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,336 |
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Posted 01/04/2012 12:00 pm
