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Question Regarding "Improperly Cleaned" Label On Coins

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United States
44 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  10:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ianp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've seen this on slabbed/graded coins.

Some look great, others have clearly been polished/brushed clean.

With that said -- how do you "properly" clean a coin? Is there no proper way?

I've heard soaking a penny in olive oil (feel free to laugh, no idea of this is true or not) and rubbing it with a cotton towel is considered a proper cleaning.

Just curious -- I have no intention of cleaning anything that I have at the moment, I'm just wondering how you do it properly.

Ian
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kookoox10's Avatar
United States
1054 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kookoox10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any cleaning at all is not a good cleaning. Even dipping a coin can have it's ill effects, and TPG's will still find out.
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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The general rule is "don't ever do it". Never ever clean a coin! Of course, it gets complicated. It's common, for instance, for encrusted ancient coins to be cleaned (soaking in olive oil is a popular method). I don't recommend that method for modern coins, and I don't know enough about ancients to be more specific.

Sometimes coins have grease, glue, crud or other foreign matter on them. This can be removed with a rinse in acetone (pure acetone - nail polish remover WILL NOT DO). Acetone will not harm the metal or patina, but be careful not to scratch the coin while handling. Acetone has the advantage of evaporating quickly and completely, so don't attempt to rinse the coin in water afterwards. Use the search function to find out how to do this safely - there are many threads on the subject.

Some people will recommend trying to conserve coins with verdigris or corrosion. There are differing opinions on this, and it requires special techniques. It's definitely an "advanced" subject.

Coins should really never never ever be scrubbed, rubbed or buffed. You should never ever try to remove tarnish or patina or discoloration. Don't use baking soda. Don't use acids. Don't use abrasives. Don't use soap.

Remember, you can always take more action later, but you can't ever undo a cleaning any more than you can unring a bell. It's almost always better to err on the side of doing less.
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rule of thumb is not to clean a coin. However, if you have a really crusty coin, has very little value because of dirt and grime on it, and you soak in olive oil or acetone and it comes out much nicer as a result, the value actually has climbed in my opinion- eye appeal means a world of difference for someone buying a coin. Also, one of our forum members has a verdigras removal chemical that seems very mild- not harsh- this is a type of cleaning, but it imprves the appearance of the coin substantially.

If one can clean a coin without it having the look of being cleaned (acetone, olive oil, verdigras removal- gentle- none are abrasive and no rubbing or scrubbing is involved), and you have some coins you can test it on that won't matter if you screw it up, then try it.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187642 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are differences between cleaning (bad) and conservation (good). These differences can seem insignificant and I do not believe there are simple rules to distinguish the two.

Education and experience are the only ways to know right from wrong when it comes to this subject. There have been many posts over the years, too many for me to link them all. I recommend doing a search for the two terms, cleaning and conservation (both together and apart) and start reading.

Everyone, feel free to post here as well; it will only add to the educational arsenal of this site.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8515 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh man, I wish you guys had said something before I loaded my rock tumbler....
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
New Member
United States
44 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ianp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the good info.

This leads me to my next question -- why don't they just label coins cleaned instead of improperly cleaned? It seems there no real way to properly clean a coin (other than wiping it off.)

Thanks for the info!

Ian
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kookoox10's Avatar
United States
1054 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kookoox10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a good question. I would think that "improperly cleaned" is anything that a TPG can find. Whether it's a minute hairline or something much more drastic. The key here is, since we are on the subject of TPG's, is discretion. Whatever they say pretty much goes. I think a good person, or group, of people to consult with is like NCS or other conservation company. They conserve coins and currency for a living, so they will know what that grey shaded area comprises of.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187642 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why don't they just label coins cleaned instead of improperly cleaned?
I think it implies that undetectable cleaning is okay, which is not difficult to argue. If I cannot tell a coin was cleaned, does it really matter to me?
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19931 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What jbuck said!

I guess they use "improperly" because they think there's a "properly" cleaned designation. LOL
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
(other than wiping it off.)

Actually wiping a coin is the most frequently seen way to improperly clean a coin. When you wipe a coin it leaves scratches on the surface that can clearly be seen but if you dip a coin in something that doesn't remove metal or bother the surface you most likely will not be able to tell. You should never rub a coin with anything
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ibab's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ibab to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've had things come back improperly cleaned. Some had hairlines. Some had tons of hairlines and I should have realized it before I sent it in. Another one had a wheel mark on the obverse -- I didn't notice till I saw the label - it sure did.

Another dealer told me PCGS has a "sniffer" - so if they detect residue of certain chemicals then they reject them even without looking at them.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2012  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IIRC, the sniffer is only used on their premium service.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19931 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, the "sniffer" is only used at PCGS for SecurePlus submissions OR, if they suspect a coin has been tamper with.....and I think they'd only do that for high-end coins.
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ibab's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ibab to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would make more sense, I figured running every coin through a machine would be time consuming... but I wasn't about to argue with the dealer who told me.
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andym's Avatar
United States
51 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2012  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andym to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you have examples (photos and videos) showing how to identify cleaned coins, please post at one of these links...

Identifying cleaned coins
https://goccf.com/t/116270

Cleaned coins
https://goccf.com/t/116621
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