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Potosi 8Reales Cob Values

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MorganMatt's Avatar
United States
47 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2012  11:18 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have recently pick up a few "cobs" and cannot get a good idea on what they are worth.

I have 1744C, 1753C, 1754C, 1760, and 1764. all from Potosi, Bolivia and came with coa's.

Are there any sites or books or etc. that I can't find with all the information I need to value these?

Thanks,
Matt
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2012  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The value of those greatly depends on their origine (certified shipwreck adds a lot of value - to some at least), and on what's visible on them :
* number of visible dates (up to 3)
* legend, king's name visible or not
* détails on each side
* general condition of the coin (as usual)

I have to admit that it would be easier with pictures :)
As for books, I think you can check out the Krause Standard catalog of World Coins 1700-1800 - or more specialized books (which will be expensive and you won't easily find to lend in the US)
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MorganMatt's Avatar
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 Posted 04/19/2012  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, got the pictures loaded. They are all certified from "Barbary Coast Pirates Hoard, N Africa".

Thanks for the input Mathieu


Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
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MathieuMa's Avatar
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1591 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2012  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They all look good and genuine :)
I don't think that being from a such hoard brings as much value as from a shipwreck, but it's still excellent to know and have certified (it still adds value)
I'll check my catalog tonight and post what I find (in the meantime, can you post the other side as well ? if you also have a date there - your coin will be worth more)
Those late cobs are usually crude, as the one you have (your dates span on 3 kings, which is cool to have as well : Felipe V, Ferdinand VI, Charles III)
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MorganMatt's Avatar
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 Posted 04/19/2012  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again Mathieu. I will post the reverse sides in a bit.
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MorganMatt's Avatar
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 Posted 04/19/2012  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the other sides of the 8R, they should be in the same order as the obverse 5 pictures.

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2012  04:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hum, the other side is not as nice, but still you you don't have any additional details on some of those :)
There is no mistake with the castle / lion position (they can be swapped, but normally not in this period / mint)

The first one seems to have a visible date, but I can't figure out (it should be 760 - but I'm not sure it looks like that)
The second have the top of 763 visible, which is nice for its value (1 date and a half, other side almost compete with essayer, mint mark, date ...)
The 1760 V one is not as nice on this side, nothing visible here. Essayer for this one is V (partially visible)
The 1754 C seems to have a second complete date, although you have to imagine a bit the 4 :)
The last one 1744 C don't have any additional info on the second side.

Here are the catalog page for all those :
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

Here is an example of an almost complete one I own - a nice Potosi 1730 M for Felipe V (the grid side was struck in two times, not sure how) :
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values

As for pricing, the easiest is to check out ebay for similar coins :)
Here is one a friend was selling, but it's in an excellent shape (and part of a big auction in spain before, where it sold for a bit less) :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...130677635306
He has that one currently listed, it will sell for less :
http://cgi.ebay.com/HIGH-GRADE-1737...em1e6d265617
Here is a 1753, but from the previous essayer (and king) - which is a bit more expensive :
http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERB-1753-q-P...em1e6cd563df
And here is a less detailed one, but less "circulated" than yours, which sold for way less :
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-1717-Y-POT..._3472wt_1219

Hope that helps :)
Are you going to collect those ? (or was it just an investment)

Mathieu
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MorganMatt's Avatar
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 Posted 04/20/2012  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great information. These coins were brought to me through a customer of ours because of the "little" knowledge I have of coins. We are probably going to end up selling them for the customer.

Im not to familiar with the rules on transactions here, but were you interested in these? If I crossed a CCF boundary forgive me there.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
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1591 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2012  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You don't have enough posts to offer those (I think it's 250 posts to sell)
Thanks anyway, I'm not interested, I have all of these already (not necessarily those dates, but I'm not looking for all of them)

If you intend to sell those on ebay, pick a nice title and description (check out the link I posted, he is good at his description usually), do nice pictures - it will sell better.
Add some keywords and mention your certification / location of the find, and details on the coin as the number of dates / essayer / etc (pirate, cob, certified, hoard, etc ...)
Or you can sell them through an auction house (Dan F. Sedwick is the specialist for those in the US)
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 Posted 04/20/2012  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The basic info that Mathieu gave you is what you need to know. However, regarding dates, FYI, that first piece IS 1760... but that second piece is 1753 (not 63), and the third piece 1764, not 1760.

Do note those catalog prices are Euros, not dollars (that catalog is out of Spain). As suggested, though, ebay Completed Items are probably your best gauge (as I'm guessing that's where they'll likely end up, anyway). Realistically, I'd say those "should" generally be in the $175-275 range, their "issue" being pretty negligible in terms of affecting value (see below). Of course, there's always the chance that the "shoot for the moon and wait for an idiot to come along" technique could garner some more $$ with some patience - not really a business plan I advocate.

Fairly nice "land find" patina on all of them, generally average condition/strike on them (that 1753 has the nicest strike of the bunch)... The curious thing about these pieces, though, is that at least 4 of the 5 have definitely been contemporaneously clipped down somewhat - note the straight-edge cuts on 1760, 1753, 1764, and 1744. Those familiar with these will recognize that cuts like that aren't mint-caused. You see this sometimes on mid-1600's Mexico cobs and also on later Potosi cobs like these. Aside from the always-possible reason of "shaving" a bit off, which those cuts seem too blatant for, apparently "they" sometimes did this to conform a foreign coin down to some local denomination/standard.

I've never heard of this "hoard" before (not that that means anything). There is another North Africa hoard on the market called by similar names ("Morocco Hoard", "Barbary Coast Hoard"), but with earlier pieces from MEXICO (no Potosi that I've seen) all dating right around 1700-1710. Clearly these are from a different source... For informational purposes, what else do the COAs/paperwork say - do they show a name of a marketing company, or anything else? In fact, if you could post a scan or decent photo of the COA itself, that would be interesting to see.
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MorganMatt's Avatar
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 Posted 04/20/2012  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganMatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is one of the COA's

Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 04/20/2012  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sedwick's book on cobs is a good outline, and you can get an idea of current prices on their website. For late Potosi pieces, $150-250 seems like a fair price.

The book also has a good list of known wrecks and the scarcity/type of cobs from those wrecks.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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MathieuMa's Avatar
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1591 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2012  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have Sedwick's book, but those cobs don't come from a wreck ... So it's not of much help :)
(I can give you the name of the essayers listed there tough if you want)

Regarding the book I posted, it's prices in euros, for coins in excellent condition with almost all features visible.
Actually, it's more a scale than pricing, but it's nice to compare coins between them (for real price, the best is to watch how much they sell on ebay and on other auctions)
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 Posted 04/20/2012  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Regarding the book I posted, it's prices in euros, for coins in excellent condition with almost all features visible."

That's true, though I might say that for the Pillars-style Potosi cobs, the spread between the values given in Calico and "average" examples is probably less than for other series. I've seen pretty strong market demand for these over the past few years...

Thanks for posting the COA, MorganMatt... My friend Google shows that "Artifacts Ltd." is (was?) apparently a gift shop type of establishment in the Caymans which handled/sold other Spanish material like 1715 Fleet and 1733 Fleet (pieces with their COAs have popped up in Sedwick auctions here and there). God only knows what the tourist trap in-store prices were... Can't find any other references to this "hoard"... presumably it was some small metal detected cache they came into contact with. I have a piece kind of along those lines from a "Touristy" type place that supposedly was from a Virgin Islands land hoard... people bury money everywhere, and it a lot of the worlds, it was Spanish silver they were burying.

In terms of the North Africa thing, I can't help thinking of the guy in Algeria who used to post his finds on the TreasureNet cob forum... He came up with a whole bunch of mixed Spain/Mexico/a few Potosi cobs (I have all of his group pics saved). He used to lament (and not in a scam way, it seemed...) in his comically broken English that he knew the Western market liked this stuff but he would encounter great difficulty trying to get it out of his country. He found a whole bunch of nice Roman stuff as well...
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 Posted 04/20/2012  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mad props to the guy in Algeria:
Potosi-8Reales-Cob-Values
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MathieuMa's Avatar
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 Posted 04/21/2012  04:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impressive :)
Actually spain was working closely with north africa, and even emitted coins for Oran in Algeria under Felipe III and Charles II.
I'm not surprised that he found some of those here (considering that before minting money, they were at least trading a lot)
Edited by MathieuMa
04/21/2012 04:49 am
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