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Divorce Is Dangerous To Your Coin Collection.

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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  12:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Over the years, I heard many horror stories about how large expensive collections can turn into small less expensive collections. Up until last year, I only heard these stories, I did not expect to have one my own.

It all started back in June 2011. I had just celebrated my 8 year anniversary. This should have been a moment of celebration, but dark clouds were on the horizon.

Up until July, I had a collection that included many gold, silver, and even platinum Eagles. My collection of Roman Coins was becoming quite vast. I already had all Twelve Caesars and was beginning to expand that series to include the Adoptive Emperors and the Severan Dynasty.

For regular issue US coinage, I had the desired 1916 D Mercury dime, 1909 S VDB, and key coins for other series.

All that changed in July 2011. My wife and I split up for good. My collection of coins was literally cut in half. I managed to take out some of my collection before the divorce process started to take place, then everything in the house was considered an asset.

What I took out was of little value, but it meant a lot to me such as my Lincoln Cent collection, and a few miscellaneous coins. The rest would reside in the house my ex was living in.

As the days turned into months, the need to obtain my coins had less to do with their collect ability, then their value. The truth is, I was going broke. Divorce can become very expensive, very quickly. My credit cards were getting maxed out and I was finding it difficult to pay my bills.

So the battle over the collection began. We went back an forth. She claimed that all were purchased during our marriage and were subject to being split 50/50. My claim is that about 1/3 of the coins were purchased during the marriage and the other 2/3 were brought into the marriage.

Before I got married I brought 16 years of coin collecting into the marriage, but I soon found that it didn't matter. Her lawyer and my lawyer fought back and forth. In the end, I couldn't prove I owned any coins prior to my marriage, therefore the collection was subjected to being split down the middle.

So here I am on the verge of getting my coins back, but I had to buy her out for her half. Now the games begin.

My ex wife never understood the value of coins and showed no interest in them at all. I would use this to my advantage.

In April we met at her lawyers office. I was on one end of the table with my lawyer, and she was on the other with hers. We agreed on many things through out the divorce, but when it came to the coins, the games were about to begin.

The new strategy was to accept only 50% of the collection leaving her with the other half to do as she pleases. Before I dive into this further I found out that she had the whole collection "appraised." The number given was $7,000.00. For a fact this collection was never appraised by anyone with any knowledge of coins. Because, my divorce is still ongoing, I won't talk about their real value, but I will say that her number pales into comparison to the real number.

As I said, my lawyer and I had a new strategy, accept my half and leaver with hers. Some might say that I was giving in too quickly, but there was a method behind my madness. She wanted me to buy her out, instead of walking away with half of my coin collection.

I knew she wouldn't want any coin and just wanted money, but I didn't want to accept money. I told her I couldn't afford to pay her any money because I was broke (which is true). But she insisted on not having half of the collection. After going back and forth for about an hour we came to an agreement. I would buy her out for her half which went from $3,500 down to $3,000.

This would seem like the story had a happy ending, but I was still in debt and on the verge of bankruptcy. I had to make a decision, continued debt with no end in sight or using the proceeds made off part of my collection to get myself back on my feet. I chose paying off my debt.
The reason I chose eliminating my debt over my collection was simple.

Keeping a collection was not going to feed me, put a roof over my head, etc. They had to go. So I began to sell off my collection. I kept the coins I had when I was a kid. Basically, I sold all but 9 gold coins (out of 42), all but 1 ASE, all platinum eagles, all my Roman coins except 1 Antoninus Pius aureus, 1 valens solidus, 1 Bosporos Electrum Stater and a number of common bronzes.

All key coins had to go, silver proof sets, complete Franklin halves, and various other coins.

With in a month my collection went down 80%. 3 weeks ago was the turning point. I stopped selling and within a week I was able to start purchasing again. My collection pales in comparison to what it once was, I sold off a lot of coins and Precious metals.

As I look at my current collection I was able to keep the coins that meant the most to me, some because they were hard to come by and others because they held a special meaning.

So my advice to anyone who thinks they might be going to a divorce is to understand that your collection is no longer your collection, it becomes and asset, unless you can prove that you owned it before you were married. (This might not apply to some states). If you protect yourself early, you may not have to go through what I and many others have gone through.


Christopher
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a very painful lesson, and I am sorry that you had to go through such an experience. :-(

There was a similar story in my family, but it did not have to do with divorce (my wife and I have a shared philosophy: we're in this for life, even if it kills us :-) ), but with estate taxes when we lost my grandfather.

His entire collection was subject to estate taxation, and my poor grandmother was forced to prove which coins he had when and how much they were worth (as she, herself, contributed to the collection on his birthdays and at Christmas). In the end, the State took a huge chunk that probably would have been much smaller if my grandfather had kept better records of where and when he got his coins and how much he paid for them. In the end, most of his collection was sold, the price was taxed, and the rest converted into Gold Eagles by my grandmother (who holds some of them in trust for each of my daughters).

This was also before my re-kindled interest in numismatics, which happened when I inherited some odds and ends of that collection unexpectedly. I only wish I was into it more, before all this happened, as we could have prevented its loss almost entirely (but that's life).

Major life events always need to be taken into account:

Divorce. -> Prenup. or other contract.
Taxes. -> Proper record keeping.
Death, estate & legacy. -> Proper will and liquidation considerations.
Fire, flood, and theft. -> Fireproof safe in a waterproof area with proper insurance.
Other "Acts of God." -> Vigilant prayer, and even then... :-)

Life always happens when you're making other plans.
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SteveCaruso,

The most important thing to do is protect yourself, had I kept records of coins that were purchased, I may have be in a better situation than I ended up in. Obviously, coins that were given to me by family members through out the years never came with receipts and cannot be proven. It is unfortunate, but I hope others might learn from our experiences.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8516 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SteveCaruso...couldn't Grandma just claim that the collection was hers and avoided that mess ?
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Spider5689 - From what I understand, if you keep a ledger of dates of when you obtain items in your collection it should be sufficient for legal challenges. I've already worked that functionality into Numismetrica (dates and original prices), although I really need to take better advantage of it.

@52Raymo - I do not know the details, but it was not an option.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Estate taxes are such a joke. Everything there has already been taxed before and then to hit a family with taxes on stuff of a loved one that just passed is even more pathetic.
Valued Member
United States
259 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chasinva69 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is an unfortunate story. Coins are different from most other purchases in that they are not used or consumed, they sit there and often appreciate in value. Your wife might spend the same amount on shoes, but who wants her used shoes in a divorce? But she is entitled to her share of them in a divorce - because you were wise enough (possibly over her objections) to accumulate items that kept their value. Adding insult to injury, she will probably dispose of them at much less than they're worth.
Edited by chasinva69
05/27/2012 2:43 pm
Valued Member
mvc's Avatar
United States
138 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mvc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a very sad story and I feel for you. Coins may be an asset, but they are not an asset like a truck, TV, furniture, etc. they have far more sentimental value.
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been divorced twice
On both occasions all I took from the marriage was my boat,fishing gear,guns and of course my coins
House,money,Car, and everything else I simply just walked away from.
No expensive lawyers, Was painless and both parties ended up with what they really cherished at the end of the day.
Divorce IS financially devastating But hay , You get knocked down and the only thing you can do is pick yourself up, dust yourself down and get on with your life.
Looks like you have managed to do this very well, Good on ya mate
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This has been a tough road to travel, but I have managed to come out of it a little stronger and wiser. I may have had to sell off the bulk of my collection to pay off my debt, but at least I had coins that I was able to sell. Had I placed the money I spent in my lifetime on coins in a bank account, I would have lost a lot more. Plus the value of my coin collection increased far more than the interest I would have received in a savings account.

I regret having to sell so many coins to pay for my divorce, but at the end of the day, I was able to keep the coins that meant the most to me. Lesson learned, document all coins brought into a marriage.
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acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spider - believe you have stated the upside - your coins MADE money and bailed you out of a tight situation. Only one or two other things in the world that will do that....

Glad to see you are back up and running. CONGRATS! Move on.....and move forward.
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
acloco, you are right, my coins were the only thing that could have helped me. If I collected baseball cards, I would be in a worse off situation.

I know I am doing better, because I no am no longer selling for need and I starting to rebuild my collection again.
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acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spider - it is GOOD that you are reaching out a touch. Just writing down the events may be...and looks like...all that you need to move on.

I know this. SOME family, SOME friends, and ALL pets....are really all that matters.....and you. Put yourself first. Pets will always love you....no matter what.

ANY hobby will also help. Coins is just one of several that I thoroughly enjoy. I wish I only had one hobby...but then, ONE would be considered an obsession! :)

Time heals. YOU cannot change decisions made in the past by you or anybody else. Look forward, move on, but, also, don't forget the lesson(s) learned....good...or bad.

Take care!!!
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oh my florin's Avatar
Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spider5689 I am really sorry for your ordeal and it must have been very hard for you to sell most of your collection:(. I know I would find it impossible to ever sell mine:(
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2012  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never believed in prenups. I think they are corrosive. To me, there could be an implication that those intending to marry don't ultimately trust each other. BOTH partners planning to marry should start out broke just like our granparents did.

I had a collection, that in current terms, would heve been valued at around $40,000 in modern terms. It included a complete Australian type in all three metals and about 150 ancient coins with all three metals represented. I sold the lot before I married 36 years ago, and put everything I had into setting up a mortgage along with my coins. My then future wife contributed everything she had as well, into the mortgage.

The result? We have never paid a cent in rent in our life! I paid off the mortgage with a single income when by wife became a member of the pudding club, then became a full time support for the family. The mortgage was paid off 22 years ago, and I have since built another collection bigger than the first one.

And we are STILL happily married!

And I think that my wife is FAR more valuable to me than any collection is ever likely to be!
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mitchhailey's Avatar
United States
1150 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2012  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like your staying positive so thats good.
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