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 Replies: 17 / Views: 4,156 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
917 Posts |
Anybody know the VAM on this one. Also does it look cleaned to you? It's in an old ANAC holder and I wasn't sure if they labeled coins cleaned back then.   |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
There's only one really "interesting" VAM for this date, and that's 3A which yours isn't. Beyond that, the other 6 identified VAMs aren't easy to attribute and more or less inconsequential. I think ANACS has pretty much always Details-graded coins if necessary; for the longest time they were the only major TPG to do so. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
917 Posts |
Cool Thanks I got a little worried when I showed a dealer and he said it was cleaned.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
judging by the mint mark location, it appears to be VAM 5, note that the first C in the mint mark is in line with the D in dollar, and not tilted, if tilted it would be VAM 7, your pic is, I believe good enough to be Vam5, you have it in hand so compare what you can see in hand with the pages on VAM World to make the final call...G |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts |
I do NOT want to forecast bad weather, but, that coin was cleaned, You have it in hand, unless I am seeing things, See how the Fields are one color, and the places someone could NOT wipe the coin,or the cleaning material could not reach, have another look altogether, That is a classic residual effect of cleaning, Again, I do not have the coin in hand, but YOU said " I got a little worried when I showed a dealer and he said it was cleaned.",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What do you think, having the coin in hand? PS, Still a very sweet dated coin!!! :)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36782 Posts |
It definitely looks cleaned and might even have been polished.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
I see it as cleaned as well, but it could be the photo. If the dealer that pegged it as cleaned is a fair dealer I would say its time to get a second opinion, or send it in to PCGS or NGC or the new ANACS for a crossover. You can state that if they see it as a detailed coin "do not break the coin out". They still charge you for grading but it will still be in a "non details holder"
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
I see it as cleaned as well, but it could be the photo. If the dealer that pegged it as cleaned is a fair dealer I would say its time to get a second opinion, or send it in to PCGS or NGC or the new ANACS for a crossover. You can state that if they see it as a detailed coin "do not break the coin out". They still charge you for grading but it will still be in a "non details holder"
That is a little dishonest don't you think  Most collectors keep the coins in the slabs so that they have a resalable coin. This coin has obviously been cleaned so the holder should state that so that the eventual buyer doesn't get stung with a cleaned coin . |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
I did not say that not cracking the coin out is the right thing. It would be the owner of the coins option. I have sent in over 20 coins with a minimum grade cross over requirement. Lets say I have a 1878 S Vam-62 in NGC AU-50 ..I what it to be in a PCGS slab, but the market on this coin is such that if PCGS grades it as XF-45 its value is 3500.00 but in the Current grade of AU-50 its worth 6000.00. When it come to the grade it is an opinion and I have coins that are graded MS-63 with the same VAM and all right next to it in a MS-64 holder and the MS-63 is a much better coin. I currently have 2 1888 O stage H6 scare-face coin on my desk. 1 is an MS-63 the other is Top Pop MS-64 I am sending the MS-64 back to the owner as my MS-63 is much nicer. The story on the 1878 S Vam-62 is true as I own the only AU-50 in that VAM with the only nicer one being AU-53. In the 78 S Vam-62 the Pop runs like this 1)AU-53 1)AU-50 2) XF-40 I think the next one is a 25 so they are harder to just find. As Far as the 1879 CC the moral thing to do is the current owners Choice! I for one would rather have it graded as it is, but I do not own it. I am sure a few of us at some time bought a coin and then resold it because something just was not right in our minds with it. So it falls to the owner to chose .As buyers we all say buy the coin not the slab, "Here's why" |
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Valued Member
United States
223 Posts |
I think that old ANACS styled holders uses a code for cleaned or altered coins, I'm not sure. You can check their site and see if this is how it was. But to me the coin does look cleaned.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I totally agree with buy the coin not the slab philosophy and that works well with people that are educated about coins.
On the other hand the uneducated WILL buy the slab and not the coin.
I feel that the educated minority have a moral obligation not to manipulate the grading system.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
I would agree with you on the moral obligation, when it comes to cleaned or altered coins. On gradeing it is something eles, I have seen the swings in the gradeing scale as I am sure many of us have seen it. There are many people that are going to think something is better then it is, "or hope that it is" some people wake up and some do not. For the Vammer that collects sucken or worn out dies that and very late die state types we see just how far off the gradeing is. Many late die state coins are seen as AU-55 and AU-58 when they really are MS coins. The graders mistake the die ware as "coin ware" I have 2 1891 O coins I just got back from PCGS the first is a Vam-3a2 that graded AU-58 this is a late die state coin and should be MS-61 and the other is a Vam-15a also in AU-58 that is an MS-61.
In most cases that grade AU -vs- MS-61 is no big deal, but both of the coins are not known in MS. This is a case of a graders opionion, where the scale that is used is flawed. Mint state is just that "no coin ware" in the case of an worn out die strike if the coin has no ware it's MS. Where it falls with-in the MS-scale should be lower due to the lack of detail or bag marks and such.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts |
1105 I agree with the premise of your post, 1st and foremost the educated must share the wealth of knowledge,for the good of the hobby, or just simply not re-direct the facts to further their own gains......Not that this is the inferred case. This coin is clearly cleaned and as suggested earlier, the slab might just have the cert # which defines that the coin has details/cleaned. I would also state to Russ, as far as the POP REPORTS know, Those stats are correct. I really do not believe "these" reports are exacting, it's obvious people do. There are plenty of people with plenty of coins, who just do not submit their coins, or coins that have been graded but not attributted and these facts have to be considered, You may have one of the only Vam-62's "Known".. This is just my opinion, Which actually I am sure will bear out to be more than plausible....Please Do Not take this as an attack on any person(s) :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
I do understand about the pop reports. I do have many harder to come by Vams "not ID'ed on the slab" I also know that this is not an attack on my person :). I am sure that there are many doubles of all Vams or coins as the Mint never just struck 3 or 4 coins and stopped...
My point was that we as collectors can take the high road and call a coin "what it is" I think 99.5% of the time most will. I also think that moral choice is that of the owner and while we as a group can point to this path, we cant enforce our way of thinking.
As far as a grade go's with the big 3 , I think that 15% of the coins graded, are not correct grades on a technical bases. Some are high and some are low, by as much as 2 points in grade, AU-58 to MS-62 and 62's that are 63's and 64's that should be 62's. I am sure some of the errors come post grading when they are being slabbed. A bulk submission with 20 1885 coins with mixed grades has a higher graded coin placed in the wrong slab and versus. I have had that happen to a group of coins that was sent in I was a part of. That's where we must preach "Buy the Coin"
Edited by twohawks
06/25/2012 11:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts |
Well said, Many people will feel better just buying the slab, I have been there and learned the hard way, :( and only depend on the coin, as I see it!!! I totally relate to your topic of grading, I too , like I am sure other's, have seen this very subjective topic go to the edge, some off the cliff, the 3rdpg's are like weather men, they receive a paycheck what ever happens, nice job!!!! :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
917 Posts |
I bought the coin knowing full well that it might have been cleaned and brought it to a dealer wanting his and yours as well. When I bought it I had a very difficult time convincing the seller that even with the ANA holder not saying it was cleaned that I thought it was. In any case I won't be sending it anywhere else but to my safe. Thanks for affirming my suspicions. |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 4,156 |
Posted 05/31/2012 11:03 am
