| Author |
 Replies: 31 / Views: 5,443 |
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
Hector, Lafortune, Potter, Pittman...
Just to give a visual, as to the names of some-of-the-people ... said to be involved early-on with the 1936 dot story...
*** The words "dot story" when employed by myself ... pertains directly to the "1936 Pittman-style/type 1¢ & 10¢ with dots" and the accepted 25¢ with a dot, as a side-line interest ***
Question...
Where did the following information/statement come from that the coin-reference book of Haxby/Willey has on the 1936 dot subject?
"one of the dot cents was found in the Pyx box, a container where coins taken at random from production runs are reserved for assay"
dts...
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
56 Posts |
cbu. Great question and  May I add a question to yours questions? Is the mint not require to report all coinage minted to the government. I am under the understanding the government are so called limited to how much they can mint or print and must keep exact numbers on there books as to how must and of what denominations. Would it be possible under the freedom of information to receive said information to resolve the outstanding question if the penny is real or not ? If true priceless If not meant to be release form the mint then they should not worth more than there bullion value? |
|
Valued Member
 Canada
94 Posts |
Appreciate the welcome WCP!
This site is new to me and I suspect it will take time to learn all the features it has to offer...
You bring-up a very valid point/observation about the accounting aspect...
The 1936/1937 Mint reports, already answer our every question about the "Pittman-style/type 1¢ & 10¢ with dots"...
What they do not provide within their pages ... is any information on the 1936 business-strike denominations with a dot...
dts...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
I'll repeat something here that got trapped in the locked thread: ---- Here's one person's take on the 1936 issue: http://1936dots.blogspot.ca/ (in reverse order, so read them last to first) ---- This got me thinking about the 1936 25c dot and how it ties in with the current discussions about the 2007 CPZ, and how perhaps the numbers allow us to calculate a upper bound on the number of 1936 25c dots made. The issue comes down to how the mint reported production in 1937. Even today we have the same issue. Did the mint produce 2006 CPZ coinage into 2007, and reported those numbers in the 2007 CPZ production figures? Otherwise, where are the 9+ million 2007 CPZ that the mint reports having produced? If the mint produced 1936 dated coins in 1937, they might simply be reported as 1937 production without any split from 1937 dated coins. This is supported by comparing the value report from 1937, with the mint's current mintage numbers ( http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn...nts-5300010)1936: 1,125,779 (= $281,444.75) reported as $242,000 1937: 2,689,813 (= $672,453.25) reported as $711,900 1936 + 1937: $953,898 (value from mintages) $953,000 (from 1937 mint report). So, these seem to reconcile. Hypothesis: ($711,900 - $672,453.25) * 4 ~= 157,788 1936 dated 25c were produced in 1937. These might have been all dots, or a split of 1936 and 1936 dots. There is no way of knowing. But, that number would seem to be jive well with the scarcity of the 1936 dot relative to regular 1936. |
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
I believe I understand what it is you are trying to present, by using Mint Report figures dialog_gvf...
Not certain if you are aware that there are two different charts that are included in the early Mint Reports ... I know that I was not aware until I obtained copies of the Mint Reports...
One chart has the figures for good-coin-produced in/during the year and the second chart has the figures for coin-issued in/during the year...
To tell how many good-coins-produced in a given year were actually issued in a given year ... one would need all of the preceding reports relating to a given series of coins, to even come close to an accurate figure for each year...
In short, not all of the good-coin-produced in a given year ... were placed into circulation during that year...
1942/1943 tombacs are a good example of this ... the composition of the 5¢ coins, makes it easy to follow in the Mint reports...
dts...
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
OH boy here we go............................. Since there have never been ANY 1936 Business strike DOT cents found or confirmed, I for one am convinced that the Specimen strikes owned by Pittman and purchased from the family of a mint employee are the only ones in existence and were "back door jobs" of the RCM. Next thing we will find out is that a Sasquatch was arrested in BC trying to spend a 1937 Canada Silver Dollar of Edward the eigth.  ............... Dean just write a well researched book on the DOT coinage of 36! It might sell well enough for you that you will be able to buy one of the SPECIMENs when it comes up for auction ! Cheers! |
|
Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Dean, considering that one of the former owners of the 1936 dot cent answered the exact same post that you put on CCRS earlier today, what could you possibly expect more for answers here?
Mindfully, SPP
PS - dialog_gvf the writer of that blog that you link to, is cbu, who started this thread.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
06/18/2012 10:48 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
*** considering that one of the former owners of the 1936 dot cent answered the exact same post that you put on CCRS earlier today, what could you possibly expect more for answers here? ... SPP ***
An individual on the CCRS offered their personal opinion on the subject of a dot 1¢ being found in the pyx box ... the individual did not answer the question...
dts...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
PS - dialog_gvf the writer of that blog that you link to, is cbu, who started this thread.
Ah. Popped over and read the posts on CCCS. @cbu: Is your position that the specimens are actually antique fakes? What about the 25c? Is that just a die pit that has been mis-understood for 75 years? Edited by dialog_gvf
06/19/2012 12:37 am
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
My position on the dot story ... is that it is 99% fiction, which is based on 1% fact...
Example sets of coinage [aka specimen sets] were not produced with 1936 dated coinage...
Only business-strike 1936 dated coinage was produced...
There was a left-over surplus from the good-coin-produced of 1¢, 10¢ and 25¢ coins at the conclusion of 1936...
The trial-of-the pyx is reserved for silver or gold coinage only...
The 1936/1937 Mint reports do not have mintage figures for 1936 dot coinage...
dts...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1353 Posts |
Dean, I have no position on the 36 dot coinage, because I have never studied them. As you and I discussed previously on the CCRS site, relying exclusively on the mint reports can lead to problems. They contain an abundance of good information, but also contain occasional errors and omissions. Whenever possible, it pays to corroborate the information elsewhere. As one small example, during a few years of The Royal Mint period of Canadian one cent coinage, the number of good coins minted reported in one table exceeded the total number of coins minted reported by a second table. My opinion is that similar reporting inconsistencies happened durign the Ottawa years. Rob http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
Rob, you announce that you have no position on the 1936 dot subject ... as you have to the best of my recollection, always said your position to be...
But and there is always a but, whenever someone ways-into a conversation as you have chosen to do...
Not exactly certain what the "but" is?
You mention that "Whenever possible, it pays to corroborate the information elsewhere"...
That's exactly what I have been doing all these many years ... older out-of-print coin books have been taken into consideration, along with articles written on the subject, the Financial Reports from the years concerned and of course, the Mint Reports proper...
As important as any written materials on the subject ... I have performed a comparative study with 1936 1¢, 5¢ and 10¢ Mint issued, business strike coinage...
750 pieces of each denomination were purchased ... from here-there-everywhere...
Since then ... 100's of examples of the denominations mentioned and those not mentioned ... have been looked at by myself...
I ask you ... what more would you have me do?
dts...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
No but's. With the multiple references to the mint reports in this thread, I merely wanted to point out that I have found them to be less than 100% accurate. I am glad you are seeking alternate sources of information.
Other than being fortunate enough to have had opportunities to satisfy my curiosity by examining both a dot cent and dot dime in person, I couldn't care less about the 1936 dot coinage. My interests in Canadian coinage diminish greatly after 1920.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
Rob, are you making reference to the advent of The Royal Mint Reports or are you making reference to all Royal Mint Reports from 1920 back? dts... |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1353 Posts |
I have copies of Royal Mint reports from 1870 up through the 1950's. Errors and omissions show up occasionally throughout. As I recall, Ottawa started publishing their own separate mint reports around 1934. I am less familiar with them, but would be greatly surprised if they are perfectly accurate. http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
My position on the dot story ... is that it is 99% fiction, which is based on 1% fact...
I asked you about the existing physical entities, not the story. What are the 1c/10c dot coins? Fakes? Back-doors? What are the 25c dot coins? Pit? Or do you have no opinion because there isn't enough information? Quote:
As important as any written materials on the subject ... I have performed a comparative study with 1936 1¢, 5¢ and 10¢ Mint issued, business strike coinage...
Comparing what to what? |
| |
Replies: 31 / Views: 5,443 |
Posted 06/18/2012 4:39 pm
