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Why Are They So Rare, 1969-S-Ddo, 1970-S-Ddo, 1958-Ddo?

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Yinzi50's Avatar
United States
716 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2012  10:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Yinzi50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am talking about Lincohn cent here. As we all know, each pair of dies can produce 20,000 to 40,000 coins. That's how many we estimated the 1955-DDO. So if one 1958-DDO has been found, that means it came out of one pair of dies. Where are the rest 19,999 coins?

Did the worker at the mint notice the error coin in the beginning and stopped the process early? Did the worker notice the error coins so s/he scooped most of them out and melt them?

Any guesses, folks?
Edited by Yinzi50
07/05/2012 9:38 pm
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Indian1's Avatar
United States
3640 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Only know of one 58-P DDO and it's a minor one.
Come to think of it Charles D. on here (coppercoins)
has the only listing for it. As far as the 69-S I do not know if only one die was used. It was a hub doubling. Only around 50 authentic examples exist. There are some counterfeits as well as some Strike Doubling (MD) ones out there.

Also had to laugh, sorry. For those of you who remember the show the "Mod Squad"

Name ? Hayes, First name ? "Lincohn"


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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
20,000-40,000 is way low for a pair of dies. But yes, when the mint sees an error or variety, they try to stop them from circulating.
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copper nickel daddy's Avatar
United States
2224 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add copper nickel daddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indian1,
Here is info on the excessively rare 1958 Doubled Die, from Ken Potter.
http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...dDieCent.htm

Based on what I have read in the past about this, since only two exist (so far!) it might be a clandestine product. But since the Secret Service seems to have no interest in it, it is so far legal to own. I'd love to have one, and I check all of the 1958's I come across looking through Wheat cent lots.
Edited by copper nickel daddy
07/05/2012 12:11 pm
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lincoln Cent dies can strike over half a million coins before wearing out. Reasonable to say that for any die variety there could have been that many produced.

The 1969S doubled die was side-tracked by a fake 1969P doubled die that got the Secret Service involved. A few of the genuine 1969S doubled dies were destroyed out of suspicion, but that number is limited. Machine Doubling has nothing at all to do with doubled dies. Machine Doubling was common in San Francisco during the 60s and 70s, but it had absolutely nothing to do with doubled dies, so I'm skipping that part.

There are fewer than 50 1969S doubled dies known, but a new one does surface once in a while. There are two probable reasons for its rarity. First, it was probably noticed at the mint, and for the better part, destroyed. Second, these are not known in any die state past early die state. This probably means there were fewer than 5,000 struck, meaning that they probably noticed it and tried to get rid of all of them.

The 1970S doubled die is a much more recent discovery, and until recent years, was only known to a handful of serious cherrypickers. They are not as limited in number, probably because they made it through the process largely without detection. Again, it is a coin that is not known in later die states, so it could have been noticed, although later in the process than the 1969S DDO.

The 1958 doubled die is probably not an accidental happening. I have had the opportunity to examine both of them. The doubling is prominent enough to be seen under decent lighting conditions without a magnifier of any kind. The likelihood of pulling one of these out of a roll or bag at this point would be astronomically low. I don't bother "looking for them" because it's a waste of time. Should a third example ever surface, then it could be worth investigating further. To my knowledge this die has been known and documented as early as 1984 and not one more has been found. Kinda tells it's own story - you'll never find one.

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Yinzi50's Avatar
United States
716 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yinzi50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coppercoins for your very useful information. You are so lucky to have seen both the 1958-DDO.
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8517 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh great....now I have to check 58's....

(it's like drugs to a junkie)
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2013  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

Assuming no one else has posted this article with CCF already the following interesting article regarding the 1958 DDO is hot off the press as of today:

http://www.pcgs.com/News/1958-doubl...zine01032013


fyi,
mdpmedia
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copper nickel daddy's Avatar
United States
2224 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2013  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add copper nickel daddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the update post, mdpmedia. This is a coin that has always fascinated me. Despite what Mr Daughtrey said, with all due respect (and I have nothing but the greatest respect for Chuck) I like to think there are still a couple floating around out there somewhere. The fact that so few know of it's existence could make it easier to cherrypick.
Edited by copper nickel daddy
01/04/2013 12:43 am
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2013  08:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The image on the PCGS article is too small for so here is a good image of the 1958 DDO Lincoln;

http://www.lincolncentresource.com/...958ddo1.html
Valued Member
eagle1's Avatar
United States
94 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2013  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eagle1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know that Stewart Blay has one in his set. Not sure which one though.
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2013  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,


Quote:
...Stewart Blay has one...


For those viewers like myself who were unfamiliar with this name the following URL may be of some additional interest:

http://coins.about.com/od/uscoins/i...DB-MS-67.htm

fyi,
mdpmedia



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