1801 8 Reales For Class Discussion - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 2,035
Larryh86GT Valued Member United States 326 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 08:21 am Even the new kid sitting at the back of the class can see a lot of problems with this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARE-CAROL...em35be95ccf3 SCARE "CAROLUS IIII" MEXICO SPANISH "1801 FM 8 REALES" CONDITION AS IMAGE Report this Post to the Staff

wonghinghi Pillar of the Community Hong Kong 1270 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 09:05 am So creative! Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 09:23 am I will let Bob Gurney comment on this one - looks modern. His other piece the Trade dollar is also a fake. Both of these look late and not a Class 1 or 2 in my opinion? Probably a debased silver alloy with copper and also? zinc around 50-60%. Its a piece which does not look familiar as currently having been reviewed for the upcoming ANS book due out in late 2013 ... but again its large letters and modern look make this piece ... interesting. The source also being India ... or is it China <BG>. Edited by colonialjohn 07/26/2012 09:29 am Report this Post to the Staff
Larryh86GT Valued Member United States 326 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 10:10 am In his feedback it shows that he sold that identical "VERY RARE 1875(S) UNITED STATES Trade dollar" before. Report this Post to the Staff
jfransch Pillar of the Community United States 1801 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 11:10 am Hey just because the lettering is off, the bust is all wrong, the color is sketchy, the pillars are really bad and the over all look of the coin reminds me of play money from when I was a kid is no reason to jump to the conclusion the coin is a fake. It could just be a bad picture. Report this Post to the Staff
Larryh86GT Valued Member United States 326 Posts	Posted 07/26/2012 9:08 pm Here is another "scare" http://www.ebay.com/itm/26107347436....m1423.l2649 Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 07/27/2012 08:52 am Based on this identical? pair my guess is these are China Cast pieces of a high quality/manufacture. I think if you took a loop you would see raised dots here and there implying a cast mold piece was utilized. No flow lines above the denticles although as P.T. Craddock and Eric Newman have discussed this is not definitive but only highly suggestive to being a cast. However, the lettering may show depressions or a view in which the raised lettering and high points were "torn away" from the casting mold. Trace elements like lead (Pb) and (Ag) may be absent in the XRF analysis and the alloy would be more suggestive of 20thC than 18thC. Most 18thC counterfeits usually have: Pb, Ag in trace amounts regardless of the debased alloy. I think if you looked at the "8" in 1801 with a loop you would see metal fall-out from its surface. It appears this is present from the current pics you supplied. In either case a good study piece but worthless as a collectible. John Lorenzo United States Report this Post to the Staff
swamperbob Pillar of the Community United States 5362 Posts	Posted 07/29/2012 01:07 am Just saw this thread. John is right FAKE - This type is the most commonly seen Modern Chinese cast Tourist fake I know of (slightly edging out the older and really bad 1776 version). It comes in Nickel (magnetic) or a high nickel alloy (non-magnetic). Mold/die is stamped from a photo engraved positive. There are NUMEROUS molds and dies for this one. I have several sub-varieties including examples that were clearly struck. Here what I think I am seeing is one of each. Priority between the struck vs Cast exemplars is uncertain at this time but there is a clear inter-dependence of the types. This one has been around for at least 15 or 20 years and periodically they reappear on ebay in large numbers. The older versions like the one seen in the first picture have REEDED edges applied with a ring die and some are collared strikes. These are the kind still being sold in Hong Kong for 10 cents each (less in large volume). The producer says he can make 250,000 a month but I hope he gets NO TAKERS. The first set of pictures actually show the reeds where the coin was pressed through the ring die. There are traces of the "drag metal" visible above the REX Mo on the reverse indicating this stack went through the ring Obverse first and that it was never finished with edge grinding to remove the split tail reeds. The pictures of the first coin also show what seems to be Strike Doubling on the reverse which proves striking in that case. The pictures in the first case clearly show the texture on the upper surfaces of the letters. This "texture" can be used to tell how the die/mold was made (in the case of a deep strike or a cast) and also the nature of the creation. Most coins of this types are unbelievably light in weight. I have from time to time owned dozens like this that I normally THROW AWAY after cutting them up. Report this Post to the Staff
Pandesalapi Valued Member Philippines 386 Posts	Posted 08/02/2012 4:40 pm Quote: Most coins of this types are unbelievably light in weight. I have from time to time owned dozens like this that I normally THROW AWAY after cutting them up. with Bob Report this Post to the Staff
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