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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,064 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I bought this coin several years ago. When it arrived it had a black spot on the obverse that didn't show on the sellers pictures. I kept the coin anyway; the spot has not changed any since then. This coin is in one of the old PCGS holders, & is rotated 90 degrees. On the obverse there are 3 tiny bag marks below the chin & the black spot in the hair; the scratches are in the holder, everything else is where the "frost" has worn/scratched off. In the picture the 2 places on the reverse that look like scratches (left of eagle next to wreath, above right wing) are places the "frost" has been worn away. The last picture is a close up of the black spot. I'll post the grade on the slab after I get a couple opinions. Does anyone have any ideas on the black spot? Does it look like something that was there before PCGS slabbed it, or would it have appeared afterwards? http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/..._21obv_1.jpghttp://www.coincommunity.com/forum/..._21rev_1.jpghttp://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...1close_1.jpg |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6383 Posts |
I'm willing to fire off the first guesstimate.... The reverse marks over the wing sure look like hairline scratches, but PCGS surely would have rejected this coin if that were the case. Therefore, I'd say it has the look of an MS-65 coin. The frost breaks on the cheek and truncation of the neck are light enough so they shouldn't hold it back from a 65. I've seen a number of Morgans with pinpoint toning spots like the one on this coin. It looks natural and non-threatening to me. I would assume it was there when the coin was graded. It is slightly distracting, so possibly the coin could grade a point higher if it weren't there. Please post photos of the entire holder (front and back) at some point. I'd like to check out that rotated die feature. A 90° rotation on a Morgan is extremely cool  . I presume there is a VAM number assigned for this variety? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
That's a hellacious strike for a '21. Top-end 64, wouldn't be surprised to see it in a 65 slab. I don't think there's a VAM associated with a die rotation; there are too many possibilities to assign each their own VAM. The spot was likely on the coin when they graded it. Look at what NGC didn't worry about when they graded one of mine:  Note the area around the S in STATES. I submitted it thru NCS; not only did they decline conservation, but NGC slabbed it. Is that die polishing around OF and "trust?" I'm not aware of a 1921 with polishing there, which doesn't also have prominent polishing elsewhere, too. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
TH, welcome to the forum! You're in good company when you post Morgans here. We eat this stuff for breakfast. Gotta love Lady Liberty!
Following my practice of not reading the other responses before giving an opinion, I'm gonna say MS-62, maybe even MS-63. I don't think that spot is gonna influence the grade very much, if at all. The bag marks on Liberty's face (the pro graders go more on her face than most everything else), neck, and forehead are gonna keep her grade down. Of course, the marks could be exaggerated by the image's lighting (I have that coin photography problem) and it might appear entirely different in hand. There's a few marks in the obverse field but practically none on the reverse, but the cleanness of the reverse won't overcome the distractions on the obverse. Also, there's what appears to be interesting metal flow in the one o'clock position on the reverse. I don't think that would keep the grade down either, at least in the MS-62/63 range. It's conceivable that PCGS might even have given it an MS-64, but that might be stretching it a little.
One thing: PCGS is not going to upgrade a Morgan that's in an old green holder. Upgrade is just not in PCGS's vocabulary these days. And all they'll send back is the same coin in a new holder. T'ain't worth the hassle and expense to even make the upgrade attempt.
Now to see what the other Morganphiles have to say...
Fred
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
... Dave's a little higher than me which is OK, but I'll stick with the MS-62/63 and maybe even MS-64. If it graded higher, that's fine. I would be very surprised and disappointed if it graded lower.
Fred
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2335 Posts |
I have included pictures of the whole slab, the PCGS graded this one MS64. It seems I caused some confusion with my rotation comment, obverse & reverse match as expected, the coin itself has rotated in the slab. Sorry about that. My inexperience is going to show here, but I don't know what is going on with the area around the OF & TRUST on the reverse. I'm going to try to describe it as best I can, using various non-technical terms . The visible marks are only on the field, and do not travel through the letters. The spot that surrounds the OF looks almost like someone took a razor blade & scraped the "frost" off, leaving the silver bright & shiny. This scraping didn't affect the letters, which still look "frosty". To the left of this spot there is a series of what look like hairline scratches. Through a magnifying glass, you can see that the lines continue through the letters, but are not actually on the letters. I don't think I can get a good picture of this, and hope my description is good enough for someone to venture an opinion. http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/..._slab1_1.jpghttp://www.coincommunity.com/forum/..._slab2_1.jpg |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
I can't see the scrapings to which you refer, but I doubt PCGS would slab a damaged coin either back then or now. To me, it looks like a good coin with no obvious alterations. MS-64 is perfectly acceptable, but I wouldn't try a resubmission to PCGS. Over the past couple years, they've really hardened their stand on Morgans and have been downgrading resubmissions/regrades. It's really a nice looking coin and would be a welcome addition to any collection. 1921 Morgans run the gamut of strike qualities with a disproportionate number being in the lower quality range; this one is right up toward the top. It's a keeper in my opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
In the hopes of getting a little more input I have posted the following photos. These are the best photos I could get with the equipment I have(Canon SD600, table lamp & no tripod). Could this be a flaw in the coin blank? Something going on with the die? The first photo shows the area in question from a straight on perspective, nothing unusual is evident. Note the long scratch in the slab that runs from the O past the rim of the coin. Photo 2 is from a slight angle, and shows a slightly darker, roughly triangular shaped section surrounding the OF & going down into TRUST. The base of the triangle is along the rim, with the tip going into TRUST. When the coin is tilted just right this section "flashes" like polished silver. The third photo shows what appear to be scratches in the field of the coin. Note that they do not travel across the lettering, although it seems to me that if the letters were not there the scratches would be continuous. http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...ompare_1.jpghttp://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...erall1_1.jpghttp://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...etail1_1.jpg |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
That's die polishing. 1921's are known for that, especially Philadelphia coins. It actually *is* "polished silver." The die polishing has created a nicer surface in that area, but for the polishing marks, leaving a brighter luster than the surrounding area. I'm really intrigued by that coin. I don't recall (and, for the last few years, 1921 Morgans have been my absolute concentration) a 1921 Morgan VAM with die polishing confined to that specific area. Can you have a close look at the corresponding area near the other wing for polishing lines? Also, you might find them near the top edge of the wings, pointing directly upward; in and around the bow of the wreath; between the eagle's head and shoulder; and maybe other places. What I'm trying to determine is if that coin has polishing *only* in the area where you've pictured it. That's pretty striking polishing, definitely (probably?) worth VAM designation, so either it's an existing VAM, or a new one. We need to find out.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
I got out the magnifying glass & looked closely at the whole coin. I can't find any other areas that look like that. If you go back to my first post, and look at the 2nd photo, there is a dark line to the left of the eagle, close to the wreath. That line also "flashes", but I can't find any of the hairlines in that area. The slab itself has a lot of scratches on it, so I could be missing something. Although I have had a collection for quite a while I am pretty much a novice. I wouldn't know a VAM designation if it jumped out and bit me. How could I find out more about whether or not this is a new one? |
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,064 |
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Posted 03/05/2007 8:10 pm
