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The Collapse Of The 2001-S Sacagawea / Coinweek

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 2,272Next Topic  
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cc99999's Avatar
United States
1302 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  11:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cc99999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The 2001-S Sacagawea has long been heralded as some kind of key date coin for the series. I never quite understood that and decided to take a deeper look at how the coin has performed in the marketplace and how it compares to other proofs in the series.

I see this piece as a cautionary tale for those looking to "strike it rich" buying moderns as there are definitely lessons to be learned in the collapse of the 2001-S.

Comments always welcomed and I look forward to reading them!

Charles

http://www.coinweek.com/modern-coin...gawea-proof/
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read just enough of this link to "get it."
Given a coin with 100,000 pieces minted
20,000 pieces minted ... or just 5,000.
If ALL of these are held and preserved by the owners, then eventually
100,000, 20,000 or 5,000 buyers must be found in the future.
(These modern coins are held.)
SO ...
Why do people still believe that any "get rich quick" quick plan is going to work?
In a word, GREED!
Those of us who know better will not take the bait.
Those of us who NEED to learn this will not even bother to read and to learn.
I do not feel bad at all about these folks who get burnt.
Maybe then they will listen to the good advice that you provide
after they have made a few, COSTLY mistakes.

(cc99999,
I got off your specific topic to make to more general,
but the principal is the same.
Forgive me my transgression.)
Edited by matthewvincent
08/20/2012 1:53 pm
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cc99999's Avatar
United States
1302 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually don't believe these collectors thought they were involved in a get rich quick scheme, to be honest. The dealers who bulk submitted the coins were the ones making out. What I think was going on- is well heeled- and not particularly active collectors bought in at the highest price points to build registry sets to top the leaderboards. as the population increased prices began to decline and they either chose to get out or stay in. Maybe they knew they were losing their equity, maybe not. Once the coin hit 1,000 or so a new tier of collector bought in- perhaps thinking that they were getting a good value because the coin was "supposed" to be worth 2,000 or more.... What they didn't realize is that they were buying in during a bear market and one that was crashing at that. If you want a PR-70 sac set you can have one now for maybe $1500. It's not a terribly bad price point but it's much more than the cost of buying 11 proof sets or 11 singles.

I have a companion piece already written about another modern coin where the absolute opposite of what went on with the 2001-S Sac is true.
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice story CC, thanks for sharing. I always wondered why that 2001-S proof was so high when so many years after are lower mintages.
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lorax's Avatar
United States
162 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lorax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great example of the risks of buying early. I look forward to reading your contra-example article
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RollSeeker's Avatar
United States
366 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RollSeeker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought one of these when they were released (not at an inflated price) and now realize I should have sold about 4 years back. Always wondered why the price was so high for this coin in particular. Can't tell for sure on lots of these moderns. Never even knew that some PF70's were selling for over a 1000. Yikes!
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2271 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again for the story and link.

It is very well written as has been typical of your articles.

Collectors need to exercise common sense and know something about why a coin is valuable before spending a lot of money. This is because collectors tend to not do due diligence so even common coins can achieve very high price levels. This cuts across the board and includes many old coins as well. In all collectibles markets demand is a far stronger force in setting price than is supply. Demand of collectibles can be very ephemeral.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2271 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't help but believe that many of those buyers of the '01-S might not have bought or timed their purchase better if they had just gone out anmd looked at a couple dozen '01 proof sets.

3,000,000 can't be considered a scarce date in this day and age when moderns are a small niche market.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
United States
1656 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If "exhibit A" in this argument is the 2001-S Sacagawea proof, "exhibit B" is the 1996-W Roosevelt dime.
Edited by ArrowsAndRays
08/20/2012 8:55 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2012  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exhibit C 1973-S brown Ike, issued at $10 lowest mintage Ike it rose to over $150 then fell back down and I bought mine for $15.

Exhibit D 1995 proof set (the regular clad set) issued at $12.50 this set too rose to over $150 at set and held a value of over $100 for ten years. Last night we gave one away as a door prize at the local coin club that the club bought from a dealer for under $10.

Example E 1999-S silver proof set. Price initially jumped and got up to over $300. Now it's a little over $100 and falling.



I've seen things like this happen again and again and again during my years as a collector and I have learned that it typically ten years or so for these items that have a sudden huge price jump right after they are issued to settle down to their long term price level. And in most cases they are unable to support those initial high prices. The next one I'm watching is the 2001 buffalo dollars. It seems to me that their mintages are way too high to support the prices they have been bringing for the past decade. Over the next few years I think we will see if they can support their prices or they will start dropping.
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Nelrak's Avatar
United States
974 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2012  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nelrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exhibit F: 2009 Lincoln Birthplace Cent sold for $1500 a box of 50 rolls when they first came out. (I know cause I was there and got 2 boxes)

Ugh, hence why I started concentrating on non-modern coins. Yes I have all those "exhibits" mentioned and did pay the high prices. Go me!
Edited by Nelrak
08/21/2012 12:47 pm
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2271 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2012  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exhibit G; A 1991 Russian mint set that was worth $4 a couple years back is now $2875.

Exhibit H; A 1954 Indian proof set went from $15 to $2800 in five years.

Exhibit I; My 1976 type I Ike that I paid a whopping $1.50 for would now go for north of $10,000.

The bottom line is if you buy popular coins you'll likely get burnt whether they were minted before 1965 or after. If you buy good quality scarce coins at the right price you might make a large profit no matter how old the coins are.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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florida's Avatar
United States
417 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add florida to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I noted on here in a past thread that I found one of 'em in a mixed dollar roll from a bank. Couldn't understand why anyone would have done such a thing.

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