What Is A Crackout Con-Artist ?

Precisely.

Other terms are also appropriate, but if you use them I'll have to suspend your account for a week.

I am trying to understand this grading business. If someone does not agree with TPG are they ethically required to keep the coin in the slab? Is is OK to remove a coin from a slab to have it graded by a different TPG? If I understand the sentiment it is unethical to remove a coin from a slab and sell it raw. Does it matter why one disagrees with the TPG? What is the difference? Is there a difference with disagreeing with the grade given by a TPG and whether it may have had a light cleaning sometime in the past or the technical grade? Is a seller ethically obligated to disclose any TPG the coin received?

Not that it makes any difference I started collecting coins as a hobby 60+ years ago as a hobby. I lost interest about 35 years ago partly because coins were looked at more as an investment than a hobby. I have never had a coin professionally graded, or bought one. I probably will not submit any that I have.

I see where you are coming from Ray
I have thousands of coins in my collections and only 2 are in slabs ( For now)
I like to buy my coins raw because it makes me rely on my own judgment/knowledge and not rely on some unknown persons grading ability.
If I had to buy all my coins graded I would dump the hobby in a heartbeat because the THRILL of the hunt just wouldn't be there for me
The answer to the OP's question is , A person that "Knowingly" buys a faulty coin in a slab then unslabs said coin and tries to pass it off as a coin without faults.
Nothing to do with the sellers opinion as to the grade but just a blatant attempt to defraud/rip a buyer off.
A very unsavory practice IMHO

Only if a person deems TPGs to have some sort of actual authority!

These are companies manned by people in a business to make money. They created a market - some would say "need" - and have developed it. Personally, I would like to use the term "exploited" it in that last sentence. But I am not sure that is fair. At first, this is what I believe it was. I have talked with people who were working as TPG graders and they told me the situations they were working in were not meant to maximize the accuracy of the service - they were working on volume.

Now I see TPGs in a somewhat different light. I can see where the use of them for authentication is a good one. I can also say that I sent some pieces in to be slabbed b/c this way when I leave my collection to my kids, or of something happens to me suddenly, my wife will have an inkling as to which ones to research before simply taking them to a coin shop and dumping them.

In other words, I have found a way to use their service to my advantage. However, the very idea that the CAC sticker exists tells me the TPGs most likely have not changed in their grading policies and aims.

The coin dealers I have spoken with (worked for the TPGs) say somewhat the same to me. On the average they say if they send in a monster box of ASEs, the ratio of 20% coming back MS70 is pretty constant and has been for quite a few years. One dealer told me when inspecting the returned MS70 ASEs, he would not be surprised if the TPG just randomly picks 20% of the ASE's out of the box and slab them..

I have a feeling the TPG's stopped the concept of computers grading (said to be being developed in the 90's) - and therefore giving an unbiased opinion - is b/c in the near future the TPGs plan to start computer grading and simultaneously will market the idea that all graded coins will be more accurately graded if they are sent back in so the computer can do it. in other words, they will be keeping themselves in business.

After all, wouldn't we all REALLY rather be sure the slab is correct? And only an impartial computer can accurately grade a coin since the computer is not subject to human error! So for only 30.00 each, we will help you sleep at night knowing your coins are as accurately graded as possible. We will even break them out of their old slabs and put them into new ones! And for only $5.00 more (each), we will affix our certified, verification sticker on it if you want us to have the computer look over it twice!

The tech for unbiased grading has likely been around for probably close to 20 years. It was the early 90's I worked for a company where we used a scanner to inspect our parts down to the micron level. After you manually took it through one part, it learned and copied the scanning routine. You could then just lay a part on the stage and it would run it through the same process. It could evaluate whether or not a part was up to specs on each part while matching it with a known standard. All problems with the parts were meticulously listed for the user.

Now realize that this was in the days of Windows '95. What could our current computers and digitalization technology do today? Even our home machines have face recognition technology.

I may be wrong in this, but I think marketing has a lot to do with the whole subject of TPGs.


syntax edits (many)

I place little blame on the seller in these situations. Anyone who buys a RAW rarity on ebay should assume the coin has been cleaned or has other issues. No seller is going to shortchange himself $500 or more to save on a $35 grading fee.

While it is true the seller may be a crack-out artist he may also be second or third down in the food chain and may just be trying to unload merchandise he paid too much for

but again, why would you state deceit? Let me ask you a question, and lets stay with the top 4 for this little exercise, so PCGS/NGC/ANACS/ICG; do you think in the entire history of the TPGs they EVER took a coin noted as a problem by one another and assigned a number grade to it? Maybe NGC, notorious for assigning details grades, saw a slight flaw and it was so subjective and questionable that they owner cracked it and sent it to another and it would up with a number grade? Do you think this has EVER happened? This is a rhetorical question because anyone that says no is an ostrich with their head in the sand. Of course it has. That firms up 2 things to me:

1 - TPGs, while experts in the hobby regarding graders, is a financially driven entity a.k.a a business making profits
2 - grading is so subjective, even amongst the experts, that to call anyone deceitful or any other choice name is hypocritical and ignorant