Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1958 To 1970 Mint And Proof Sets.

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,197Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community

United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  1:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I read something that Cladking posted on another thread; that I agreed with and thought it deserved it's own Thread.

Cladking basically made the statement that Mint sets from this era were going away at a good pace.

I would agree and add that Proof sets are as well. While true that in many places these sets are a "glut" on the market. I think it is because of a perceived notion of "infinite availability".

Meaning people think they have always been easy to find, will always be easy to find;and hence have no value.

As a "traveling" dealer, I know a couple of hundred other dealers in B and M shops; flea markets and Antique malls.

During the "The Great Silver Melt" of 2008-2012; I have personally seen thousands of these sets cut up for the Silver coins. The rest being put into circulation.

The trend currently seems to be building collections of Silver and Lincoln sets. And even in the arena of Silver sets; Franklins and Roosevelts are being left behind. Roosevelts more than Franklins, by far.

A nice BU set of silver Roosies can be bought at spot plus a small premium.

Back to the topic at hand.

Hobbies move in cycles and fads. Once the great majority have completed their silver sets they will eventually move onto creating a high grade clad set. At that point, with demand growing; we will find there are not as many mint sets around as we thought there were.

There were will be interest, especially from the "advanced collectors" who will compete for registry sets and sets with that only have FS, FT, ect.

It is a curious axiom these days that unless a coin is in a US Mint set holder it is not considered MS; when offered in a 2x2. One only has to look at the prices for the special sets from 82/83 to see what I mean.

Your thoughts?
Pillar of the Community
upstate's Avatar
United States
3278 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the proof sets which are in original packaging are still inexpensive and I have got to
hurry up and obtain them. I agree they are perceived as being in infinite supply but will not always
be as such; perception or reality.
Valued Member
TenHalves's Avatar
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TenHalves to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


I've thought about this very same trend in the past and I keep thinking there will be a rapid escalation once this is realized on a widespread scale. Infinate supply of mint sets is of course an illusion, but as long as they are perceived readily available the prices will remain as low as they are. The effect works both ways though, a perception of vanishing supply will lead to rapid price escalation.

This may also be accelerated if the mint makes changes to modern coinage due to the coin modernization act. December 14th of 2012 the study congress commissioned is due to be presented on alternative metal compositions from the penny to the dollar with many possibilities speculated especially on pennies, nickels, and half dollars including the possibility of one or more being discontinued. As most of us know, these possibilities are not new and would meet significant resistance but if anything were to actually change this is another area which would surely be impacted.

Only time will tell how things play out, but I agree that many mint sets are far cheaper now than they should be.
Pillar of the Community
acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the above posters. If I had a couple extra grand....I WOULD invest in multiple mint sets and one of each proof set (silver and clad).

Believe the looooooong term investment is good.
Pillar of the Community
babysitr's Avatar
United States
1339 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add babysitr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been investing in mint and proof sets for a couple years now....Mostly because I've been able to get them at a value price,,and did not own them before....Have noticed several collector friends that break them out asap,,to complete other coin sets...Just never thought of it from that angle,, jmkendall.....You make a very interesting point!!
Pillar of the Community
cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hobbies move in cycles and fads. Once the great majority have completed their silver sets they will eventually move onto creating a high grade clad set. At that point, with demand growing; we will find there are not as many mint sets around as we thought there were.


I've long thought that people would be surprised to know just how scarce many of the coins are. Over the years they just keep getting scarcer and scarcer. Most 1969 mint sets have been destroyed and proof sets aren't fairing a great deal better. With a lot of the coins in mint sets the vast majority are highly substandard and unattractive. The combination of few remaining and poor quality would cause lots of stress on supplies if there were any demand. Of course the demand is just infintesimal. About ten companies assemble sets of things like clad quarters and sell up to 100 or 200 per year. Most of these sets will have a lot of low quality and even AU coins but the buyers aren't aware of the situation since most are not advanced collectors. But each of these collectors might someday choose to upgrade. There are also hundreds of thousands, even million, of the folders being sold for clad coins and many of these collections might someday be upgraded. The potential demand is well up in the many millions counting states quarter collectors but the supply of truly nice attractive coins is often in only four figures.

Personally I think the demand will materialize because people are nostalgic and these coins have been used for nearly half a century now. If the demand appears the supply is such that many will have to settle for lots of unattractive coins or they'll have to find nice looking specimens in only VG condition from circulation.


Quote:
It is a curious axiom these days that unless a coin is in a US Mint set holder it is not considered MS; when offered in a 2x2. One only has to look at the prices for the special sets from 82/83 to see what I mean.


Collectors have the mistaken idea that the mint and proof sets are all picked over. Actually though most sets don't get actually picked over until large numbers are assembled to be cut up. Then the picked over sets are destroyed leaving mostly nice fresh sets on the market. There just aren't very many left especially for the pre-'73 dates. Some dates are picked over for specific coins like '70 sets rarely have an unidentified smalldate any longer and SMS are picked over for cameo usually. People see poor quality and figure the nice ones are missing but in actuality these sets just weren't made very nicely. It takes a little effort to find choice specimens. It's the same thing with singles; collectors often assume these are substandard but as a rule these are actually slightly better than average. Finding Gems as singles is tough but average quality is better. Some dealers slip in AU's so you do have to learn how to tell a BU from an AU.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Pillar of the Community
cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not only people recovering silver from the older sets causing these to be destoyed; it's the fact that since there is no demand for the coins they have very nominal value. Many of the mint sets are simply trading at the combined value of the silver and face value of the other coins. A 1980 mint set trades at face value because it contains no silver and there are far more on the market than collectors can absorb. This leads to people cutting them up to spend the coins. For many dates this has been going on for decades. Everytime a set comes into a coin shop there's a high probability that it will be destroyed within months or a couple years. Coin shops have far more mint and proof sets coming in than they can sell so when they have too many they ship them off to the big wholsalers who cut them up. Usually a high percentage of the coins go straight into circulation.

It's been three decades now that the 1980 mint sets have been getting destroyed anytime the original buyer disposes of them. One can only imagine how few might be left after all these years. It's even worse with the older sets and the silver sets. Collectors have the attitude that these coins will always be around so they can always get some if they want them. But the fact is while the sets might actually be around for at least another century their number will be tiny and the available number of nice specimens of many coins will be tiny.

This has really already happened. It's not something that will occur someday. Already there are not nearly enough of a supply of many of these coins to supply a mass market like the number of collectors for Buffalo nickels or silver eagles. If Americans ever get nostalgic for the coins of the '60's and '70's then ex[pect big changes in the price and availability of these sets. Suddenly the number of sets coming into coin shops can slow to a trickle as more and more customers want to buy them. Instead of twenty coming in to supply the demand of one there will be twenty customers for each set that comes in. It's impossible to supply this demand since the sets are gone so most of the demand will have to be priced out of the market. It would be an entirely new paradigm.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Pillar of the Community
Broseph's Avatar
United States
979 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's odd how low the price is. With shipping and ebay fees, I see people getting back probably around what they paid for the mint set many years ago if there is no silver.

I still don't own a mint set. Maybe I should go after an 88, my birth year?
Valued Member
aandabooks's Avatar
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aandabooks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a shop that puts a lot of sets in a bargain bin. Anytime I see 65-69 sets in the bin I buy them. I've got roughly 100 sets so far for between $5.50-$7.00. I figure I'm getting a 40% half and either $.41 or $.82 in face value coins. I've even picked up SMS sets in OGP for $7.

I figure if silver goes up a bit more, I will be breaking even on the 40% and if demand for these sets go up in the future, I will have a good profit potential.
Pillar of the Community
Broseph's Avatar
United States
979 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, I wish I lived closer to a coin shop so I could do that!
Pillar of the Community
cc99999's Avatar
United States
1302 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally, I have cut up and destroyed about 2,000 mint sets from 1968-1981
Pillar of the Community
cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '88 is a good date but tough work to find just the right set. It was the beginning of a falling mint set production and only 1,600,000+ were produced. They aren't too hard to find and about half of the mintage survives. Quality can just be stupendous because many of the planchets for these were burnished. This means there are large numbers of Proof Like coins though most have unattractive scratching. The Philly half dollar comes with a rotated reverse in the set about .8% of the time. You'll need to look through about 100 of these to find the two parts of an all Gem set and another twenty or so for the rr half. The Denver cents in this set are often spectacular. About 5% are nearly perfect and highly PL and about .2% look like branch mint proofs. Most of this cent comes as Gems and chGems are quite common. The nickels are tough and clean shields can be found on half dollars of both mints.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Pillar of the Community
acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 2009 P & D satin mint sets - less than 800k minted. 2nd lowest production of any Lincoln Cent....since introduction.

Just a thought..............
Valued Member
WashQuartJesse's Avatar
United States
173 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WashQuartJesse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought rolls of 69 p mint set quarters that were cut apart for the silver when the melt value exploded. The mint sets were bought in huge quantities, cut apart for the 40% halves, and the rest were sold in rolls to fatten profits. There's no question these sets will explode in value down the road. I really don't care what happend though, I just want to find my darn quarter. I usually find 2 or 3 64's and maybee a borderline 65 per 40 count roll.
Pillar of the Community
perfessor's Avatar
United States
927 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2012  02:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always wondered why occasionally you would find a proof coin in change or a roll. I used to think they were spent accidentally. Now I guess they were actually intentionally put into circulation. I would still keep it if I found one, just because it was proof, even if it is impaired.

It also amazes me that dealers would sell rolls of proof coins. That is a lot of broken up sets.
Pillar of the Community
cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2012  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I always wondered why occasionally you would find a proof coin in change or a roll. I used to think they were spent accidentally. Now I guess they were actually intentionally put into circulation. I would still keep it if I found one, just because it was proof, even if it is impaired.

It also amazes me that dealers would sell rolls of proof coins. That is a lot of broken up sets.


I'd wager close to 90% of proof coins in circulation are intentionally released by dealers because they are culls. Customers demand almost perfect proofs but as many as 10% (usually <5%) of the proof set coins can be substandard. These coins are spent. The mint set coins can be found as well but they blend into the coins in circulation so are much harder to see. But I have seen heavily worn coins in circulation with mint set crimping damage and there's a tendency to see to see high grade, high quality, examples of dates where the mint set has recently fallen in price. Proof and mint sets tend to get cut up when the price falls or the price of silver increases.

One major wholesaler brags of filling up three dumpsters every week with the packaging for mint products and primarily mint and proof sets. The older sets are not nearly so common as people assume.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
  Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,197Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change. Forums