Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Yet Another Hoard...

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 2,809Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community

Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  05:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

...found in England albeit a small one. Still I wouldn't say no to one of those.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...olk-20547476
Pillar of the Community
enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  06:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a find! I can only imagine the look on my face if I turned that up.
Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epikur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How many coins does it take to make up a hoard? Less than 14, according to the article. anyone have the exact figure?
Edited by epikur
11/30/2012 07:28 am
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  10:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, I'd never heard of Kett's Rebellion.
Pillar of the Community
Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Treasure act (1996) defines a hoard as 2 or more coins - 10 or more if the coins are bronze - older than 300 years.
Pillar of the Community
Fat Freddy's Avatar
United States
1200 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fat Freddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just out of curiosity... I'd like to ask of you UK residents who might know...

When somebody finds something like this and then the govt overall, the govt conservators, the govt tax man and all the rest of the Empowered Predators
pounce on the poor guy and stip the meat off of his hapless bones, about how much of the "treasure" he found does the poor guy actually end up getting to keep?
Pillar of the Community
Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Freddy - Good Question. I dont know the answer officially, but I can tell you a couple of instances. The person doesn't keep the hoard if it's deemed to be Treasure (and significant). What usually happens is a museum raises funds to buy the hoard - the money is split between land owner and finder with, I assume, some taken for fees and taxes.

With a hoard of this size and calibre, I have no idea. I assume the guy will get to keep his find, or perhaps the local museum will purchase it.
Pillar of the Community
Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bah! finders keepers!

crazy that a museum can buy it/keep it but the finder/owner can't. I could understand if the govt seized it out-right, but at least give the finder/property owner the option of paying the tax/fees and then do what they please with it.
Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epikur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the ting is, in the old world, governments have different oppinions on what to do with relics of substantial age...

In Sweden for instance, it's not allowed to use a metal detector because the land is pretty much coverd with ancient findings from the early bronze age and onwards..

Not sure about the north american laws...is it allowed to use a metal detector on ancient indian grounds? That is the only thing I can compare to finding artifacts in europe.

I know many countries , especially around the mediterranian, it's not allowed to dig up or export artifacts, but there are ppl here that know more about it.

So, in my opinion, it's not finder's keepers
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2012  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just out of curiosity... I'd like to ask of you UK residents who might know...

When somebody finds something like this and then the govt overall, the govt conservators, the govt tax man and all the rest of the Empowered Predators pounce on the poor guy and stip the meat off of his hapless bones, about how much of the "treasure" he found does the poor guy actually end up getting to keep?

In Britain, the local Coroner is the person in charge of determining whether a find is Treasure or not. If it's not "Treasure", as defined by the Treasure Act of 1996, found coins are the property of the finder and/or the landowner - if found by a metal detectorist, it's usually a 50:50 split, negotiated and agreed upon before the detecting begins. They are free to keep or sell the coins, however they wish.

In theory, anything found that is Treasure belongs to the Crown, to be disposed of as the agents of the crown see fit. In practise, for most hoards, the same 50:50 split applies. But the Treasure laws basically give the government the right to keep anything deemed to be of national historical and cultural significance and give/sell it to one of the state-sponsored museums. In such cases, the finder and landowner are usually "rewarded" with their share of what is deemed by a government committee to be fair market value of the Treasure, but they aren't allowed to automatically keep any of the finds themselves.

The government is not legally obliged to pay a reward, but they're pragmatic enough to know that if they simply seize the treasure without compensation or offer insultingly low rewards, then treasure-finders are going to be much more reluctant to co-operate and inform the government about future finds.

As for the tax man, well, the reward is considered "income", and would be taxed just like any other income.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2012  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Typically when a find is declared treasure the museums are allowed to purchase it at the fair market value and the finders split that. If no museum is interested in it or if they can't raise the funds to purchase the find then it is given back to the finder

They had a case of that a few years back when a gold penny was found (Only the 8th one known). It was declared treasure and they came up with a fair market value of about 400K pounds for it. No museum could come up with the money so it was given back to the finder. It was later auctioned and brought around 600K pounds to an American buyer, but then they wouldn't grant an export license for it. There was going to be a lawsuit over it but they settled out of court by buying the coin from the American for around 800K pounds. (Why they could come up with 800K when they couldn't come up with 400K I don't know.)
Pillar of the Community
nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2012  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, all I could say is that if I was in the UK and found something like this on my land, the UK government would never hear about it.
Pillar of the Community
Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2012  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yeah, all I could say is that if I was in the UK and found something like this on my land, the UK government would never hear about it.


Our heritage is very important to us. Its important it is properly logged and conserved - money means squat - there will be more money printed tomorrow - historic artifacts are a finite resource.
Bedrock of the Community
Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2012  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And if they ever do find out about it you will lose twice the value of the find and may do some jail time. It is much better to just report the find. You really can't lose to badly doing that.
Pillar of the Community
nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2012  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like you lose 100% of the time if you report. Not much motivation to follow the law in such a case. Us colonists are kind of opposed to unjust laws you know ;)
Pillar of the Community
austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2012  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Seems like you lose 100% of the time if you report. Not much motivation to follow the law in such a case. Us colonists are kind of opposed to unjust laws you know ;)


Actually I would say the Uk system is one of the fairest systems in the world. Look at the looting of archaeological sites around the world and the loss of information because coins and other treasures are sold on the black market. The UK treasure laws enable the countries heritage to protected and for the finder and land owner to gain.

In Austria Metal detecting is banned....Coin hoards are rarely found ( at least reported) outside of Permitted university digs. Given the illegal nature of Metal detection and finding hoards and taking into account the porous nature of Austria's borders I would say many important finds simply disappear into the black market and we are all the worse off for it.

BTW I don't think UK taxes are as comparable to US Taxes(From my limited understanding I have the impression the US tax system is one of the most vicious in the world, It is highly possible I am wrong) For treasure finds in the UK the most likely tax applied would be capital gains ( 18%) with which the first GBP 10,000 is tax free.
  Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 2,809Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.47 seconds to rattle this change. Forums